Coop build, what am I missing?

[HogeHomestead]

Hi everyone!

We are planning out everything we need for a coop design and building before we get our chicks! I have been researching a lot and I wanted to pass along our design components to seasoned chicken parents to make sure we are not overlooking anything!

• It will be an 8x16 coop. The first 8' will be the walk in area, the last 8' is the coop part. There will be a dutch door to enter the walking area, then the space between will be screened in with a door. The back wall of their coop will have a little pop out door to access a very, very large run (we want space for more girls in the future without having to rebuild).
• We will have two thermal activated automatic vents at the top of the coop. One in the front, one in the back. The space between the roof and walls will be sealed. The windows will have functional shutters and be covered with hardware cloth for safety. Hardware cloth will also be at the bottom of the coop and run to deter predators (but our backyard is fenced anyways).
• Inside nesting boxes will have curtains to deter roosting in there, and there will be a total of 6. (We are starting with 8 hens and may get more in the future).
• There will be two roosting bars and poop shelves underneath. Ladders to help the girls up. The highest one will be about 4' up (7 foot wall). We were thinking a lower one will be directly under the window about 2.5-3' up, and that will help with the natural roosting order between the bigger hens and the smaller (silkies). It will be slightly higher than the nesting boxes on the opposite side so hopefully no roosting/nesting confusion.
• We will do deep litter bedding in the coop and run with pine shavings, and in the fall I'll add leaves to keep it to proper height for natural composting.
  
  Questions:

1. We live in New England, but coastal so it's a bit warmer. Will we need to create a double wall to insulate the coop with fiberglass or anything like that? Our average winters get down to the 20s at night on the coldest months, but usually hover in the 30-40s for the majority of the winter. *I'll note we don't want to create extra walls/insulation if it's not necessary. The walls will be a thick plywood. We want them warm enough to keep laying, but don't want it so warm that they cannot adjust between the coop and the run during the winter months.
2. Are the two thermal vents enough ventilation? What should we do for ventilation during the winter months when it's cold? The pop up door will stay open during the day, but the vents wont open if it's not warm. I want to be sure the hens are getting everything they need.
3. Can we keep the windows with shutters open at night during the spring-summer since they will have hardware cloth, or should they be closed daily?
4. Will the little hens that roost on the shorter roosting row be too cold since it's by the window?
5. Did I miss anything??

 

[3KillerBs]

Welcome to BYC. I don't have time to respond in any detail right now, but I'll leave you some general information and some links.

The Usual Guidelines

For each adult, standard-sized hen you need:

• 4 square feet in the coop,
• 10 square feet in the run,
• 1 linear foot of roost,
• 1/4 of a nest box,
• And 1 square foot of permanent, 24/7/365 ventilation, preferably located over the birds' heads when they're sitting on the roost.

Why these are *guidelines*, not hard-and-fast RULES: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/how-much-room-do-chickens-need.66180/

Cold-weather chicken keeping: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/cold-weather-poultry-housing-and-care.72010/

A diagram about ventilation that comes from an article on cow barns, but that demonstrates the principles:

 

[DobieLover]

The space between the roof and walls will be sealed.

I would not do this. You cannot have too much ventilation. I would leave the space between the rafters open and secure them with 1/2" hardware cloth.

Then add trim to cover the cut edge and further secure the HC.

Inside nesting boxes will have curtains to deter roosting in there

The curtains provide a bit of privacy and fun for you but will not deter sleeping in the boxes.

We will do deep litter bedding in the coop

This is kinda pointless with the poop boards. I clean my coop out once a year and scoop the boards every morning.

Will we need to create a double wall to insulate the coop with fiberglass or anything like that?

Absolutely not needed in your climate and provides a great nesting spot for rodents and nearly impossible to treat space for mites.
My winters are harsher and this is my winter coop setup.

The ridge, gable and soffit vents are open year round and two windows away from the roosts are left cracked open.

We want them warm enough to keep laying

Warmth has little if anything to do with laying. Day length has the biggest influence on laying.

Are the two thermal vents enough ventilation?

No. Add more.

Can we keep the windows with shutters open at night during the spring-summer since they will have hardware cloth, or should they be closed daily?

Absolutely! Mine are open as long as the temps stay above 40 with low wind.

Will the little hens that roost on the shorter roosting row be too cold since it's by the window?

As long as there are no drafts coming from the window strong enough to open feathers they will be fine. You can't think of coop drafts the same as house drafts. My windows are intentionally leaky because that provides more fresh air.

Are you covering the run with a solid roof?
Remember to install gates and doors that swing OUT from the chicken area.
You don't want to have something like this happen and you can't open the gate because it swings in.

 

[HogeHomestead]

@DobieLover this was an awesome response thank you!!

I would not do this. You cannot have too much ventilation. I would leave the space between the rafters open and secure them with 1/2" hardware cloth.

This was actually my initial plan but then I saw some threads saying it would create too much of a draft in the winter and during snow. I'll go back to this idea then, thanks!

This is kinda pointless with the poop boards. I clean my coop out once a year and scoop the boards every morning.

My intent is to clean the coop every spring, harvest the compost they made, and do a fresh round of pine for deep litter. I figured I'd have to sweep the poop in the mornings from the roosting shelf and then throw it into our outside compost. If I'm catching the majority of the poop they will make in the coop, what should I expect for bedding in the coop?

My winters are harsher and this is my winter coop setup.

I've actually seen your coop before! It's the one that encouraged me to look into a roosting shelf instead of just inserting rods.

You can't think of coop drafts the same as house drafts.

We are about a mile or so from the coast so we almost always have a breeze. My assumption was that if the breeze temps were too cool, or if the winds were too high, that would be considered a "draft." is that correct or should I be thinking of something else?

Are you covering the run with a solid roof?

The current plan is to just use the rafters from the frame, and do a galvanized roof attached to the beams. Should I have a plywood roof with the galvanized panels over that instead?

 

[3KillerBs]

This was actually my initial plan but then I saw some threads saying it would create too much of a draft in the winter and during snow. I'll go back to this idea then, thanks!

The drafts you need to worry about are the ones that are directly on the chickens that they can't get out of -- primarily at perch level. Air movement above the chickens' heads is what you want.

Chickens have extremely delicate respiratory systems that can't tolerate stale air. Their poop releases ammonia, which rises just like heat, and needs to be vented at the top of the coop -- as shown in that diagram in my previous post.

We don't need to think about keeping our chickens warm. We just need to keep them dry -- and venting moisture is a large part of that -- and their built-in down parkas will keep them warm.

 

[Brooks_]

I would not do this. You cannot have too much ventilation. I would leave the space between the rafters open and secure them with 1/2" hardware cloth.
View attachment 2825415
Then add trim to cover the cut edge and further secure the HC.
View attachment 2825416

The curtains provide a bit of privacy and fun for you but will not deter sleeping in the boxes.

This is kinda pointless with the poop boards. I clean my coop out once a year and scoop the boards every morning.

Absolutely not needed in your climate and provides a great nesting spot for rodents and nearly impossible to treat space for mites.
My winters are harsher and this is my winter coop setup.
View attachment 2825431
The ridge, gable and soffit vents are open year round and two windows away from the roosts are left cracked open.

Warmth has little if anything to do with laying. Day length has the biggest influence on laying.

No. Add more.

Absolutely! Mine are open as long as the temps stay above 40 with low wind.

As long as there are no drafts coming from the window strong enough to open feathers they will be fine. You can't think of coop drafts the same as house drafts. My windows are intentionally leaky because that provides more fresh air.

Are you covering the run with a solid roof?
Remember to install gates and doors that swing OUT from the chicken area.
You don't want to have something like this happen and you can't open the gate because it swings in.
View attachment 2825437

While not helpful to this thread, I just have to say that I can't wrap my head around the pic with all that snow.

 

[DobieLover]

If I'm catching the majority of the poop they will make in the coop, what should I expect for bedding in the coop?

If the run is predator proof and you can leave the pop door open, very little poop is deposited on the floor of the coop.
I dump the full poop buckets in one bay of my 2 bay compost bin and add leaves or grass clippings throughout the year when available.
One bay just slowly composts for a year and I don't at anything to it.
When is time to clean the coop, I empty the year old bay and turn that into the garden beds. Then I layer old coop bedding with the contents of the active compost bay until both the active bay and coop are empty. Then I start over adding fresh poop to the empty bay and layer it with whatever browns I can until the following spring.

My assumption was that if the breeze temps were too cool, or if the winds were too high, that would be considered a "draft." is that correct or should I be thinking of something else?

If the breeze cannot open the birds feathers it's not a draft worth worrying about.

The current plan is to just use the rafters from the frame, and do a galvanized roof attached to the beams. Should I have a plywood roof with the galvanized panels over that instead?

You can put galvanized roofing over the rafters of the run as long as you install purlins. I would install end closures to keep the contours of the roofing from permitting entry to weasels or mice.
If you are used galvanized roofing over the coop, it's better to have plywood over the rafters to prevent condensation during the winter.

 

[DobieLover]

While not helpful to this thread, I just have to say that I can't wrap my head around the pic with all that snow.

It was a record breaking snow fall. 42" in a 24 hr period. The prediction when I went to bed the night before was 24" max. It took me 8 hours total to dig out with my neighbor scooping my driveway with their front end loader.
We were stranded on the hill for 4 days before the plows opened the roads.

 

[saysfaa]

I like your design!!!

You don't need plywood under the galvanized roofing. Just put purlins at the spacing recommended for your snow load.

I'm not familiar with thermal activated vents but if they are what they sound like you don't need those either... many people with good systems open extra vents in the spring when temps get to 45 or so and leave them open until the start of the next winter. This works well in the open front Woods style coops (where they have lots of winter ventilation even with the extra vents closed).

The ladder/ramp is too steep. If I remember right 45 degrees is as steep as they might manage and less angle is better.

 

[bruceha2000]

Hardware cloth will also be at the bottom of the coop and run to deter predators (but our backyard is fenced anyways).

No fence most people are likely to put up will keep out the most likely land based chicken predators. What do you have? A fox can get through a 5" gap, a coon through a 4" gap. Stoats, cute as they are, can get through MUCH smaller holes. That is why you use 1/2" hardware cloth on ALL coop openings. All can climb. You may never see any of these animals but that doesn't mean they aren't around, you just haven't put out the chicken buffet yet.

about 2.5-3' up, and that will help with the natural roosting order between the bigger hens and the smaller (silkies).

I have an 8' roost at 2', never once has any bird of any age roosted on it. They use it to get to the ramps to the 4' roosts (if they choose not to fly straight up). Chickens want to roost as high as they can get.

@DobieLover answered most of the things I was going to answer. Ventilation is of PRIMARY importance, all year round. Want frostbite and dead birds in the winter? Lock it up tight so the humidity and ammonia can't get out. It is really hard to have too much ventilation as long as wind isn't blowing on the birds while they roost. The pictures @3KillerBs posted show the desired airflow, in low, out high ... if possible. Chickens ALWAYS wear their down coats, I've had heat tolerant breeds and they have done fine even when it gets down to -20°F. The only heat they have is in the heated dog water dish. You will have no problems with winter temps, make sure you can also deal with the heat of summer. They can't take off their coats though they can minimize the amount of trapped air in warmer weather.

My coop is a converted horse stall in an old drafty barn. 7' tall, solid back wall. 4' walls on 3 sides with wire covering the 3' areas above the walls. The people door is open top to bottom. 1/2" hardware cloth on every opening, on the dirt floor and on the joists above. Poultry/fence staples, not "Arrow brand" staple gun staples. Those are easy to pull out but can be used to hold the hardware cloth in place for proper fasteners. Some use screws and fender washers (which can get expensive) or screw wood strips over the edges of the HW and where it passes over a stud.

If you trust your run, you might consider an automatic chicken door. Then the birds can get out when YOU don't want go out early Mine is a Pullet-Shut operating on a light sensor so I don't have to adjust it seasonally. The birds go into the coop as it starts to get dark year round. My birds are out by 4:30 AM in June and in by 3:30 PM in December. The Pullet-Shut hinges on the side and opens/closes faster than vertical "guillotine" style doors. It also has a "second chance" feature where it opens 5 minutes after closing in case someone missed the first opportunity.

Since the coop opens to the barn alley I don't need to worry about snow/ice blocking the door. If used on a coop opening to the outside world I would create a covered walkway with closed sides. That probably is useful even with manual pull up doors in areas where snow or freezing rain could glue a door shut.

You will find that:

1. The hens will have a nest box they prefer. Depending on status in the flock more than one may cram into a box or a resident will get kicked out by higher ranking hen.
2. Hens think the best place to lay is where someone else has laid, thus the fake egg thing.
3. There may be boxes that are never used
4. Some may decide to lay somewhere other than in the nice boxes you provide. I've got one that has decided the best place to lay is on top of a bale of pine shavings in a small room 15' from the coop. Others are laying in a cardboard box under a ladder in the "feed room" next to the coop. I've also found eggs in the alpacas' hay feeders 5' off the ground. They stage from the gate that keeps the alpacas in their end of the barn.
5. You will occasionally get an "oops off the roost" night egg.

As @DobieLover said, laying is related to hours of daylight, not temperature. If you want them to lay year round you'll need to have 12-14 hours of light every day. I've read it is best to add it at the beginning of the day rather than screw up their "go to roost" behaviour. It doesn't have to be a bright light. I choose not to force mine to lay year round, figuring they need a bit of a rest since they aren't my primary source of income. In fact I think that at best they are a wash with what we eat and sell. I do have one that didn't get the memo on moulting last fall (when she was 16 months old) and hasn't stopped laying since Nov of 2019. I'm hoping she'll give herself a break this fall! Mine usually start moulting/quit laying now through Nov and don't start laying again until late February.