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Corn FREE Feed and Soy FREE Feed (STARTER?)

we've been using New Country Organics - you can order a no corn layer - the grower and starter do not have corn - all the products are organic and now soy! our guys love them, we started on something tractor supply carried and it was mostly corn and soy and said it was organic - check out the new country organic site!
 
Hey everyone, I appreciate your replies. I'm not here to stir up any hostility. I'm simply asking for feed suggestions on brands/suppliers I'm unfamiliar with.

What we feed our pets and our flock is a personal thing. I spent a lot of time at college studying Animal science, so explaining why or how I came to my decision is really a combination of my classes in not only nutrition, but also evolution, paleontology and anthropology. If you do have a question and are genuinely intrigued, I will answer in as short an answer as I can muster, or maybe even send you a nice article. But if you just think I'm crazy and think my view is nonsense, then please just move on, thanks.
A little bump here...looks like you haven't been logged on since April, but I'll give it a shot anyway...

I've been thinking about this topic quite a bit recently. I'm personally on a lower carb, grain free, dairy free, paleo/primal diet and feel most people would thrive on this. We didn't load up on carbs until very recently in our evolutionary history. I believe the excessive carbs, refined sugars/grains, artificial colors/flavors, and foods like soy contribute to a lot of the metabolic disease and cancer we see (not all cases, but many). In other words, fat doesn't really make you fat, but rather excessive carbs and sugar. High fat with high carbs is generally a big no-no as well. That's just my personal belief so I don't really want to go down that debate road with anyone in here today. ;)

With that said, I think about my chickens and what their paleo foods would be. Pretty much insects, vegetation, and seeds and fruits they can find...pretty much the red junglefowl diet. Usually the argument here is that these are now domesticated birds that can handle all of these refined grains, corn, soy, etc., but it makes me wonder. I was able to handle a lot of chips and ice cream through my 20s and still be in shape, but I couldn't do it now at almost 40. Our birds can seem to thrive on this feed, and produce many eggs and tasty meat, but at some point in their adult life a lot of those metabolic disorders start popping up (fatty liver, hormonal issues, etc).

Maybe egg production would go down, but would it create a healthier bird and a healthier yolk? Commercial feeds really load the birds up with the n-6 fatty acids. I've read about the feral Hawaiian chickens having higher n-9 and n-3 ratios from eating macadamias and avocados...yes avocados. I'm not sure I'd risk the avocado route given some of the horror stories here, but I wonder if there's a happy middle ground here between a commercial feed and the feral diet.

When I eat carbs I usually go toward more paleo friendly ones that are nutritionally dense...usually different types of sweet potatoes (orange, white, purple). I'll usually bake them and cut the ends off of each side and give those to the birds. They tend to enjoy the warm treat and they're packed with nutrients. Others are yucca, plantains, chestnuts, and butternut squash. I know birds are better suited to handle seeds and grains than humans, but I still wonder about the high amount of refined grains found in commercial feed. I'm contemplating switching over to NCO soy/corn-free, but that just gets loaded with other grains and field peas.

Any thoughts? I know there are others out there with similar thoughts as mine so I'm not trying to reinvent that wheel, but I do want to think outside of the conventional box. If it results in a slight drop in egg production, but a healthier bird and egg, I'm fine with it.
 
High egg producing hens, and large meaty chickens, are NOT Jungle Fowl, and planning to feed these birds more of a 'wild type' diet, will be a problem on two fronts; first, the reason a hen decreases egg production because of her diet, is that she's malnourished. She will first spend metabolic effort into her genetically programmed egg production, and then support herself. Meat type birds will be VERY hungry, at least.
There's no problem with spending more for a balanced feed that has a different, but effective, mix of ingredients, but those ingredients aren't any more 'wild type' than that corn! Virtually all our foodstuffs are genetically modified; it's called 'selective breeding' and is what humans have done since agriculture was started. I'm all for it, myself.
Mary
 
I understand selective breeding and don’t consider that as GMO food. That’s pretty much evolution...we’re just speeding it up and choosing what “naturally” selects. I know some here prefer to let their birds 100% find their own food in the warm season, but I’m not even suggesting I want to do that. I want my birds to have the best nutrition possible. I’m thinking more along the lines of nutrient density. I’d like for them to be able to get all of the vitamins and minerals they need without excessive wasted calories. Corn is not the most nutritionally dense food, but it’s cheap (as is soy). Many already add omega 3 egg makers as a supplement...I’d rather do that with real food like occasional sardines. As for egg laying, I’m pretty sure we had someone from Green Mountain Feeds here say that their soy-free feed caused slightly less egg production versus the soy. I’d assume the nutritional macros are similar despite slightly different ingredients. Anyway, I don’t have a set plan per se...I just had this topic on my mind and wanted to brainstorm some ideas away from the basic pellet. Maybe I’ll try some sprouting for now with winter coming.
 
We don't have Green Mountain feeds here, so I've no experience with them. If it's actually true that hens fed that diet don't lay as well as they should, that's a big red flag, as to the nutritional content of the feed.
Chickens eat to meet their caloric needs, and good diets are made to provide them with the right 'stuff' when they eat that amount of feed. Corn makes a good base for chicken feeds because it is cheap (bad for farmers right now) and works well in the blends that are done. Soybeans also work out well.
It is interesting to explore all the options available out there, and I hope you can find something that addresses to your concerns about specific ingredients, and does well for your chickens. Mary
 
A little bump here...looks like you haven't been logged on since April, but I'll give it a shot anyway...

I've been thinking about this topic quite a bit recently. I'm personally on a lower carb, grain free, dairy free, paleo/primal diet and feel most people would thrive on this. We didn't load up on carbs until very recently in our evolutionary history. I believe the excessive carbs, refined sugars/grains, artificial colors/flavors, and foods like soy contribute to a lot of the metabolic disease and cancer we see (not all cases, but many). In other words, fat doesn't really make you fat, but rather excessive carbs and sugar. High fat with high carbs is generally a big no-no as well. That's just my personal belief so I don't really want to go down that debate road with anyone in here today. ;)

With that said, I think about my chickens and what their paleo foods would be. Pretty much insects, vegetation, and seeds and fruits they can find...pretty much the red junglefowl diet. Usually the argument here is that these are now domesticated birds that can handle all of these refined grains, corn, soy, etc., but it makes me wonder. I was able to handle a lot of chips and ice cream through my 20s and still be in shape, but I couldn't do it now at almost 40. Our birds can seem to thrive on this feed, and produce many eggs and tasty meat, but at some point in their adult life a lot of those metabolic disorders start popping up (fatty liver, hormonal issues, etc).

Maybe egg production would go down, but would it create a healthier bird and a healthier yolk? Commercial feeds really load the birds up with the n-6 fatty acids. I've read about the feral Hawaiian chickens having higher n-9 and n-3 ratios from eating macadamias and avocados...yes avocados. I'm not sure I'd risk the avocado route given some of the horror stories here, but I wonder if there's a happy middle ground here between a commercial feed and the feral diet.

When I eat carbs I usually go toward more paleo friendly ones that are nutritionally dense...usually different types of sweet potatoes (orange, white, purple). I'll usually bake them and cut the ends off of each side and give those to the birds. They tend to enjoy the warm treat and they're packed with nutrients. Others are yucca, plantains, chestnuts, and butternut squash. I know birds are better suited to handle seeds and grains than humans, but I still wonder about the high amount of refined grains found in commercial feed. I'm contemplating switching over to NCO soy/corn-free, but that just gets loaded with other grains and field peas.

Any thoughts? I know there are others out there with similar thoughts as mine so I'm not trying to reinvent that wheel, but I do want to think outside of the conventional box. If it results in a slight drop in egg production, but a healthier bird and egg, I'm fine with it.
we have thirteen girls and use New Country Organics - ours does have corn in the layer, but you can get the layer without corn - all their seed is non GMO organic and has no soy - we have great eggs and happy girls who supplement with fresh garden veggies and other homemade treats
 
we have thirteen girls and use New Country Organics - ours does have corn in the layer, but you can get the layer without corn - all their seed is non GMO organic and has no soy - we have great eggs and happy girls who supplement with fresh garden veggies and other homemade treats
Do you ferment the feed? Do they tend to pick the ingredients they ant out of that feed and leave others behind? I've been looking for NCO corn-free around here for months to no avail. I'm not paying $21 for shipping from them so I've been holding off.
 
we have heathens, they eat all the grain and all the treats, have you tried the New Country Organics? what I love is that they are all soy free - forgive me if I missed where you live? have you checked out the website?
 

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