Cornish Thread

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Jx2inNC, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. fowlman01

    fowlman01 Overrun With Chickens

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    She looks crow headed from the side. That goes along with the lack of bone. You want to breed for the wide head which is part of making it a Cornish. You need a breeder bird with a wide skull if you can find one...the wider the better.

    Walt
     
  2. Cedarknob

    Cedarknob Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Yes, as I said, its the worst head I've ever seen on a Cornish, and I've seen some entire lines that looked a little light bodied, small boned, and/or crow-headed to me, but if they had one with a head this bad I never saw it pictured anywhere. I would love it if her head was only as good as some of my mutts. That head would be a near perfect demonstration of anything to cull for on a Cornish if she was cross-beaked. LOL

    I've seen some LF Cornish being taken towards more of a light bodied Asel look because some like it or thought the SOP describes a bird that can't live breed well and the hope to keep some lighter and less wide with a hope to breed a few heavy bodied show birds off them. I don't intend to breed in that direction. I hate her in some ways; but she has the size, meaty body, and wide stance that I want.

    I may be full of beans but here's the way this newbie sees it; she is small boned only in comparison to her size. Those shanks that look like toothpicks under her are wider than my thumb, nearly perfectly round, and would look pretty impressive on any of her same age sisters. In the picture she looks slightly splayed because she's standing on a wire; she's actually straight, very large, carrying her weight well, and presently wider across the front, the shoulders, and between the legs than any female I have at that age. I might mark her as a cull her today if I had a lot of to choose from and had another close to her size and width, and I do have a few younger so I can hope to find another and I don't think any of them are crow-headed, so may be able to cull her at 6 months. If I do have to use her and cull the poor headed offspring, or her and all her offspring, I can. Its my dime, so if she continues to stand out as the largest, widest white I have I will hatch some eggs from her. If that turns out to be the mistake I suspect it likely is, but hope its not, I can live with it because I've made bigger mistakes. LOL If I never get a pullet with her size and width and a much better head, I will have to wonder if culling her might have been mistake and there will be no way to know. LOL

    I can see you're trying to help me see some very obvious flaws, so thanks. I showed the profile of her head because I thought you must not have read my words and might have mistaken her for an adult bantam due to the way her shanks look under her body as a juvenile LF, coupled with the way her head looks like it might be the more rounded, pigeon eye and head that bantams carry, in the pic taken from her front.
     
  3. fowlman01

    fowlman01 Overrun With Chickens

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    As I said, she has good width between the legs. There is quite a difference between her legs and the DC you posted. Again pictures are a hard way to give accurate info on birds, but given her head and legs that is how I determined that she is smaller boned than you need. I don't think I would breed from her until she was older, since she may have other faults that are not evident yet. As you say it is your dime, but feed prices are going through the roof. The heads on bantams should be wide too.

    Walt
     
  4. Cedarknob

    Cedarknob Chillin' With My Peeps

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    These are the first two Cornish I ever had. I had set out looking for a bird to use as as a stud for breeding a line of blue egg layers that carried considerably more meat than the only two breeds that do. I saw the DC that won a show where I went to in the search for breeding stock and wanted to buy him, but naturally his breeder wasn't willing to sell him, and especially to someone who was honest enough to tell her he only intended to cross breed with him. LOL

    She had a policy of selling all of her 6 month old culls to one person that ate them, but a little later she graciously sold me two cull cockerels knowing they were going to be used to breed, but not breed Cornish off of them. She spent some time explaining to me why she considered these two birds unworthy to breed Cornish off of. She had had been improving the bone on the birds she started with, but was still sometimes getting occasional throwbacks of light boned, small headed individuals. I suppose the best flocks throw culls.

    I used these two start my project, but just plain fell love with the Cornish breed. I spent a year trying to contact her wanting to buy some that were worthy to breed Cornish with. When I finally succeeded it turned out she had taken a new job that required her to relocate, told me where the last of her breeders had been left, and suggested I contact them. I did that as soon as I got off the phone with her; and when they said to come look at them, I was in my van and driving. I arrived back home late that night with all but the three individuals they refused to part with. LOL

    These were the first two culls she had let me buy. I lost them both in a buffalo gnat plague that nearly wiped me out in one morning. To be honest I would have used the heavier boned of these two to get started breeding Cornish if I had not lost him, but had to wait and use one I think is a better bird only due to the fact he was gone. I have not had a throwback in the few DC I hatched this year that looks like the smaller framed, 6 month old cockerel pictured below; but to my eye that white pullet that I may have to use looks like him but with less brow.

    [​IMG]


    This is the other, and culled by her because she had better headed and less beaky birds with more bone and wider stance. I've been to a show where this bird would have done well; if I have started to get an eye to look for what good Cornish are supposed to be. [I know I have a lot to learn.]

    [​IMG]

    I am a newbie and operating on a shoe string budget and not trying to pretend otherwise. Breeding a better Cornish that fits the SOP is a stretch for me, but the goal of breeding a good one is enough to motivate me to get out of my recliner on days when I don't really feel like doing that. I also enjoy sitting in that recliner 'talking' to folks here at BYC, though I know as a newbie conversing with those that have experience that I may sometimes remind them of a baby Robin sitting in the nest: mouth open and full of poop. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2012
  5. al6517

    al6517 Real Men can Cook

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    Steve :
    That sounds like Sharon Malmberg's birds from up Iowa way, I knew for some time that she was planning on getting out of Cornish for certain reasons. I saw her at a few shows last year and she did mention she was trying to dump the rest of what was left of her stock, and that the good stock went to her close friend. Sharon is well respected in the Cornish circle and she introduced me to Walt and Bob and some others years ago. She's good folk for sure.
     
  6. Cedarknob

    Cedarknob Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I sent Al a lot more detailed PM that is better kept off this thread. I didn't mention the breeder's name of the three DC hens I got out of respect for her. I did not get her best birds, I am a newbie, and do not want to try and impress anyone by saying where they came from. I have little doubt that I could produce some show winners off them if she had picked a trio of adult DCs and told me they would do it. When I told Al that she had moved and quit breeding he told me that wasn't so. [That started a bit of animosity that does not belong on this thread and I that am still trying to do my best to end.] I understood her to say that she no longer had or bred Cornish, and that the best of them had gone to a fellow breeder, the rest left with a friend that bred bantams. If she still had Cornish "she was trying to dump" when Al said he talked to her then I must have misunderstood her. I would have been interested in looking at them too. The three hens I got were 2009 models that she had bred and kept until she moved. There was an older hen with them [that I liked better] that had not laid an egg in 2010, but the guy would not put a price on her. There were also two chicks, bred off the hens I brought home put under a cock of hers that now gone, that he would not let loose of. The two chicks had not even feathered in fully yet, but maybe he has the experience to know they were likely to be the best pair. I took everything else and kept those I liked best. Aviengems saw a pair of the juveniles I delivered to Crossroads that' to my eye they looked pretty good, but liked what I kept better. I kept some with very poor lacing to breed whites off of because I think they have nicer bodies and better bone than some of the better colored ones I did not keep.

    edited to add that I know I am too inexperienced to breed the pattern and color back on the darks I have if it is even possible., and may not even be able to learn what I need to know. I'm not going to ask anyone to trust me their show stock of any variety, I'm just going to see what I can do with what I have started with. If the opportunity comes to get some better than what I have now to help me breed better WC, I intend to do that. I appreciate Walt's advice on that white pullet, and I know it is good advice, but have to work with what I have for now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2012
  7. speck wilson

    speck wilson Out Of The Brooder

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    some one asked for a pic of a cornish with a pearl eye not a great picture (she wiggles) but this is a 2011 white laced red hen , bantam,she was mated with a orange eyed cock bird this year and hatched out 24 chicks, interestingly the pullets appear pearl eyed at this point while the cockerals are a deep yellow to very light orange
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Cedarknob

    Cedarknob Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thank you.
     
  9. aviangems

    aviangems Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Still yellow eyed to me
     
  10. Cedarknob

    Cedarknob Chillin' With My Peeps

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    On my monitor there is a lot of pale grey/pearl pigment appearing in the yellow of her eye that was immediately apparent. I don't know if judges score extra for a super pearl color or just deduct 2 points for them not having them. So much to learn.
     

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