Cornish X - Apple Cider Vinegar

Discussion in 'Meat Birds ETC' started by bigredfeather, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. bigredfeather

    bigredfeather Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Does anyone give Cornishes ACV in their water? At what age? How often?
     
  2. greyfields

    greyfields Overrun With Chickens

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    I never have. It seems more common for people maintaining laying flocks.

    With that said, it can't hurt. The real question is does it help?
     
  3. willheveland

    willheveland Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I tried it for awhile and I honestly think it may curb their eating.I've noticed that they didn't seem to eat as much with it.I don't know if it's because they drink so much more than a layer or what.I've tried this both in warm and cooler temps.I think with only an 8 week livespan you really don't need to use it,and it may cut down on your final weight.(not extreme amounts but enough to notice on the bottom line)It seemed like with it they would eat maybe like a 5 gallon pail less of feed per 3 days(25birds)
    I feed them in plastic gutters scooped from a pail,I've done the same thing long enough where I can tell within a few pounds of feed if they are eating normal.For me I notice I use about 1/2 a pail of feed up to 4 weeks and it increases to almost 3/4 to full by the end of 8 weeks.
    Anybody else notice something similar? Will
    p.s. please note that I am a regular user of ACV for my other birds.(I'm Pro ACV)
     
  4. bigredfeather

    bigredfeather Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I haven't been giving it to my layers because I am using a metal waterer. I read ACV can react with metal. As soon as my Meaties are gone, I'm going to clean up the 5 gallon plastic waterer they are using, and use it for my hens so I can start w/ the ACV then.
     
  5. dancingbear

    dancingbear Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Will, I haven't given ACV to my birds on a regular basis, but I am a big fan of the stuff, I take it myself. So I'm full of questions after reading your post.

    Did you give the ACV for the whole lifespan of that bunch? What I'm wondering is if it's possible they ate less but digested it better, due to the acidity and enzymes. Did you give it long enough to observe whether there was any change in the droppings, or anything else that might indicate a change in digestion? If you did continue through the whole life of that batch, did you see a lower average finished weight? I'm wondering if it's possible it may have improved feed conversion a little. Or not?

    I read elsewhere on this forum that ACV with the mother can help prevent coccidiosis. I don't know enough at this point to make any claims in that area. I've given it, along with a little honey to birds that were droopy or listless and had them perk up, but I don't know what the underlying cause was.

    I'd like to do a side-by-side comparison with some meat chicks and see how they do. I want to try some color rangers.

    If anybody reading this has done a side-by-side with ACV (especially the organic w/the mother) I hope they'll share their results.

    Bigredfeather, you're correct, you can't use it in metal containers. It will definitely react with the metal, ruin the container and possibly harm the birds with the metal going into the water.
     
  6. chandasue

    chandasue Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Apple cider vinegar curbs appetite in humans (as well as beneficial to digestion and reduces heartburn, etc...) so it makes sense that it did the same in your chickens.
     
  7. willheveland

    willheveland Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Will, I haven't given ACV to my birds on a regular basis, but I am a big fan of the stuff, I take it myself. So I'm full of questions after reading your post.

    Did you give the ACV for the whole lifespan of that bunch? What I'm wondering is if it's possible they ate less but digested it better, due to the acidity and enzymes. Did you give it long enough to observe whether there was any change in the droppings, or anything else that might indicate a change in digestion? If you did continue through the whole life of that batch, did you see a lower average finished weight? I'm wondering if it's possible it may have improved feed conversion a little. Or not?

    I read elsewhere on this forum that ACV with the mother can help prevent coccidiosis. I don't know enough at this point to make any claims in that area. I've given it, along with a little honey to birds that were droopy or listless and had them perk up, but I don't know what the underlying cause was.

    I'd like to do a side-by-side comparison with some meat chicks and see how they do. I want to try some color rangers.

    If anybody reading this has done a side-by-side with ACV (especially the organic w/the mother) I hope they'll share their results.

    Bigredfeather, you're correct, you can't use it in metal containers. It will definitely react with the metal, ruin the container and possibly harm the birds with the metal going into the water.

    Honestly,I never tried it through a whole batches lifespan.I was kinda afraid to,after seeing them eat less.I wanted them back to what I think(thought) is normal.I never thought about the conversion/digestion thing.Now after you mentioning that I kinda wish I experimented more.I didn't notice a change in droppings,but then I wasn't really looking.(I just look for blood)
    Coccidiosis fighter??? maybe?? If it helps prevent mites and prevents bacteria from growing in your waterers,maybe it could help prevent it.I don't use medicated feed,always used ACV,never had a problem with cocci(knock on wood) Is cocci a bacteria or virus? I guess I will have to experiment more.I don't do any more meaties til spring now.I onlyhave layers now and with them freeranging during the day they eat very little feed either way(til the snow covers everything).
    You say you use it yourself,do you do the 1 tbs.ACV,1tbs.honey with 8oz. warm water thing? My father told me he always thought honey was a natural antibiotic.I've seen him use it with horses when I was little.I thought he was using honey to hold his medicine man mixes together,but after he died and I got older I wondered if it was for the antibiotic thing.Too late to ask him now.
    Boy bigredfeather.you got us all thinking on this thread,good post! Will
     
  8. dancingbear

    dancingbear Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Will, I haven't been able to find anything really definitive, but I think I'm going to try it myself this spring. I've never had a problem with cocci here, probably because they die in dry soil, and we always have some dry spells during the summer, and they don't survive freezing, which we get plenty of in the winter. My birds free range, and I seldom have any illness in my flock at all. What little I do get is usually easily treated herbally, or if I'm really worried sometimes I'll use an antibiotic for ten days, in the water. I seldom have to do that though, maybe 4 or 5 times in over 15 years.

    Coccidiosis is a parasitic protozoa. It's very common, there are lots of cocci species. Many are harmless or mild, and a lot of birds develop immunity as chicks, and you'd never know it was even present. Some forms however, can cause severe illness or death.

    I keep ACV around all the time, my DH and I are both prone to severe muscle cramps that don't let up, sometimes for hours. About 4 oz. of organic ACV w/mother makes them stop within a couple of minutes. It's been a great find for us. I haven't taken it daily, but I just started doing so. I dilute a couple of tablespoons with 2 parts water, no sweetening added. I couldn't do that with Bragg, it tastes awful, IMO, (it's the only brand available locally) but I just got a new brand that I picked up when I was out of town recently. Solana Gold, it's not nearly as bad as Bragg. I've been have some digestive issues, so I'll see if this helps. I've used it (with olive oil) for gall sludge, too, the stage prior to stones developing. Clears it right out. (So will lemon juice and olive oil, or an herb called chanca piedra will work, too.)

    Your dad's right, honey is a natural antibiotic, at least the raw unfiltered stuff. If it's been heated, the enzymes are destroyed. It will still work to promote wound healing, though, I've used it on cuts and scrapes, it makes them heal faster. Honey's good for all kinds of things. Great for minor burns. Do you have your dad's medicine man recipes? If you do, I'd love to hear some of them.
     
  9. bigredfeather

    bigredfeather Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I had no idea this would end up where it is now. Like you said, it has turned into something worth pondering. This is my first batch a Cornishes. I have 26 of them. I am keeping a detailed log of how much feed I am buying, so I can determine the FCR after they are butchered. I definatly plan on doing other batches of 25 in the future. I think I may use this batch as the control group, and not give them any ACV. The next batch, I will give them ACV on a consistant basis, log feed just as I am doing now, and see what kind results are determined. We may be on to something profound here. I am always trying to come up with the best and most efficient way of doing things, so an expirement like this fuels my fire.
     
  10. jaku

    jaku Chillin' With My Peeps

    I like Apple Cider Vinegar, especially in the summer- it cuts out the nasty, stagnant water smell of the waterers.
     

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