Cot Genetics

[rittert3]

So is white then a color gene? My thinking with using a&m vs. EW was that a&m already have a tendancy to "spot". I also want to mention that (as far as I know) Quaillady is trying to get golden tuxedos. I want spotted birds that look like her stock just happens to look like now. I hope she chimes in soon.

 

[chrishel]

I thought A&M and EW were essentially the same. (I'm sure there are tons of opinions on that statement, where is everyone?) At least color wise.

It's more of a weight/size difference. Sort of like Jumbo vs. Normal.

That's my understanding.

 

[rittert3]

As far as my understanding EW never have the head or back spot like a&ms often do, but I maybe wrong.

 

[chrishel]

Looking at Quaillady's website, I thought it was the opposite!

I have a feeling true A&Ms don't really exist anymore. Sort of like how Lady Amherst Pheasants and Buffalos have been so inbred they are no longer pure. Then again, A&Ms were really just a selective strain, not a separate species like my example.

 

[rittert3]

Jumbo White are pretty much A&M there aren't many, if any pure birds from the original A&M strain from what I've gathered but they still have mostly the same traits. Inbreeding will make animals more pure (but can cause other problems if done to closely and/or to much, depending on species), inter breeding will make them less pure. There are alot of amherst/ golden crosses but there are still alot of pure amherst, and with buffalo I'm not sure they can produce fertile offspring when crossed with anything, I know fertile Beefalo are very rare and beefalo in genral are hard to produce. We have 2 or 3 big ranches close by that raise American Bison.

 

[chrishel]

I was reading in Smithsonian magazine that all Bison have some cow genes. So there aren't really any pure ones left that they could find. And even if they could find them, there are so few, as you mentioned they would end up inbreeding quite quickly. I thought the same was true for Amherst, but since they aren't scientifically/culturally significant as bison, there's no genetic testing for those. And people who have "pure" ones, might not really have them (honestly misinformed) or might advertise them as "pure" even knowing they are not just to get better sales (dishonestly misinforming).

But again, those are different because the impurity comes from hybridization with different species.

We're talking about the same species, just different varieties developed by selective breeding of spontaneous color mutations and other characteristics like size.

 

[Stellar]

You guys crack me up! I am outside covered in stuff and you are all discussing my favorite topic!

Texas A and M is technically a lost variety since after it left the university, people went bonkers and didn't breed them like they should be. I was fortunate to receive stock that went to my University and then worked on it there. So I have the original blood in mine but then as I add new blood, it becomes more my line if that makes any sense.

Texas A and M is technically a Jumbo English White...both will be all white or with a spot on the head.

The Golds I am working on have many genes within....roux dilute in some, fawn, yellow, you name it. All combine together to create the markings that are desirable. You have to play around with the colors to have what you want. What I am finding with the golden tuxedo line is some chicks are hatching all white (yellow down) and THEN getting their gold back later. ALSO, I am working with lethal genes so I don't get very much in each hatch. I hatch a lot so I get a lot of splits that are used and whites that carry the genes I want. A lot of labeling and recording so I don't mix it up with another batch. Sometimes I add these eggs in my "rare assortment" that people buy because it's always fun to get a surprise

The white birds are double pied, that is correct. You can create tuxedos after several generations. Stick a few whites with some reds, roux dilutes, etc...create splits that carry the genes you want. Breed the splits together and so on. You will eventually get what you want. Make sure to cull any birds with crossed beaks, or deformities. It takes a while to get to your goal and sometimes you need to start over. The fun of projects.

 

[rittert3]

So what will I get it I cross a white on a tuxedo if they are both rec.?

 

[Stellar]

You will get more tuxedos and some whites. Not much more.

 

[rittert3]

O well thats fine with me, I guess id probaly have to selectivly breed tuxedos with the most white to get what I wanted but I don't have room for that kind of program.