CRD and chicks, or was it the baytril?

[rcentner]

So, my flock is suffering from what I believe to be mycoplasma G. I had been treating them sucessfully with denagard, but then forgot to do the treatment for 2 months. They all were doing very well. and then....one after another the infection started. I started the treatment again, but too late. I have only lost 3 hens so far and have 2 more chickens that are on the fence. I started giving baytril to the ones that are most severely infected incase they have a secondary infection. Some have recovered from looking real bad and some have passed away without much advanced notice.

It almost seems to have 2 forms...one where they get eye bubbles, draininge and nasal excretions with coughing and sneezing. The others seem to get a cough, have trouble breathing and pass away within 12 hours of looking that way (with no discharge from anywhere).

I had some chicks hatch out in the middle of this outbreak and this morning the 2 oldest ones looked like they were getting sick. (about 3-4 weeks old) so I gave them a dose of baytril (calculated for weight) this morning. I just went out and found both of them dead.

so do you think that it was the baytril? The drug handbook does not mention any possiblilty of death as a side effect or of sign of overdose. The side effects mentioned are mostly kidney, liver sort of things.
Or do you think they passed away from the disease and it just hit them super fast. (hmm, although...they could have been looking off yesterday and I wouldn't have known cause I worked all day)


additionally, does anyone know about MG and the effects on chicks? My fall hatchlings did very well, but I have never had an outbreak this bad. I am willing to try most anything if you guys have suggestions (besides culling my whole flock, I made this mess and I will fix it darn it)

 

[nnbreeder]

It's time for a Necropsy. call your county extension office and find out what to do. With neither the Baytril nor the Denagard doing any good it could be something other then CRD.

 

[rcentner]

Quote:
my DH wouldn't allow us to pay for a necropsy since we are broke, not to mention that my state has a terrible extension office. I have contacted them before and they are of no help. The official chicken guy is out of NYC (which is FAR away from me...9 hour drive) and I couldn't ever get a hold of him.
I have tried cornell university, but they want a lot of money and I would have to send it in through my vet office.

the 1st dose of baytril was this morning for the chicks, all the others that I have given baytril to are looking really good, they responded to the baytril in 24 hours or less.

 

[chickengrl]

The symptoms are very similiar to Infectious Laryngotracheitis. With them dying suddenly like that. It is a herpes virus that only chickens get and even if they get better they will be carriers and can infect any new birds or chicks that you bring in. It is very contagious and difficult to contain. Unfortunately, it may be time for you to consider culling your birds if you want to add new ones. This is not something you can fix. It is possible to vaccinate new birds, but that does cost a bit and it sounds like you don't have unlimited funds.

As far as the baytril and your chicks, it's really hard to say what killed them. It may have been the disease, or a drug dose miscalculation. Easy to do with them being so small. Really sorry you are going through this painful experience. It is heartbreaking. I hope things turn around for you.

 

[rcentner]

Quote:
well, would it make sense that the denagard works on the problem? (when I can keep on schedule). About 6 months ago I did a lot of research on their symptoms and really felt that it was the MG. The denagard treatment plan is 1x/month for 1 year and they are supposed to be cured. (yes CURED they claim). Have talked with others who this has worked for and it was working great for me until I didn't realize how long it had been since thier last treatment. They were all nice and healthy until the last few weeks.
I am crossing my fingers right now cause everyone looks healthy, eating and drinking and no sneezing or eye problems. I will have to start the denagard treatment plan all over again (good thing it comes in a big bottle).
I do waiver when I read the symptoms for different diseases cause the respiratory stuff seems to be so similar, but being that the denagard works I will stick with my original diagnosis (or guess). I am guessing that we are getting secondary infections making things confusing.

at this point, whoever doesn't make it through this....well....it's like thinning out the weak I guess. It is the only way I can keep sane through all these dying and sick birds. I think I saved my beloved phoenix though, phew, she looks 100% today. on top of it all....1 of the hens is suffering from peritonitis too (but not the respiratory illness)

thanks for your ideas and cross your fingers that I am done with dying birds (except maybe the one with peritonitis)

 

[chickengrl]

I have a feeling that you might have a secondary infection going on. It's so hard to tell. My understanding of MG is that the mortality rate is very low and it sounds like you are losing quite a few birds. That's what made me think it might be something else. We have ILT diagnosed in my flock by necropsy. We did not cull since they are pets and we can keep a closed flock. We had about a 15% mortality rate with it. Your symptoms sound so similiar. Denagard is supposed to be helpful with most respiratory infections according to other folks on here. It wouldn't help with ILT though since it is a herpes virus. It makes some sense that you could have a mixed infection, since they get better and then relapse after a period of time.

It's really too bad your State vets are not helpful. Ours in Virginia were very nice and helpful for the most part. I did have to pester for the final report, but not too bad. They seem pretty busy. Sounds like the best you can do is continue as you have been. A necropsy would be so helpful to you. But I understand that we can't always have what we would like for our birds. If you treat them for a year and they still get sick again, that might be the best information you can get. Good luck and keep us posted. I learn a little bit every day from folks here.

 

[nnbreeder]

With severe cases of ILT the first sign for the keeper is usually that the inside of the coop looks like it has been painted with blood from about knee high down. Blood vessels in the throat rupture and to try to keep the airway clear the birds toss and fling their heads about.

With mild cases of ILT chances are you will not even know it is in your flock. The egg laying will drop off and a few of the birds will act depressed but in about two weeks it should go away only to re occur in times of stress.

This is from the Merck Vet manual online and the link that follows is to the entire page.

Infectious laryngotracheitis (ILT) is an acute, highly contagious, herpesvirus infection of chickens and pheasants characterized by severe dyspnea, coughing, and rales. It can also be a subacute disease with lacrimation, tracheitis, conjunctivitis, and mild rales. It has been reported from most areas of the USA in which poultry are intensively reared, as well as from many other countries.
Clinical Findings:
In the acute form, gasping, coughing, rattling, and extension of the neck during inspiration are seen 5-12 days after natural exposure. Reduced productivity is a varying factor in laying flocks. Affected birds are anorectic and inactive. The mouth and beak may be bloodstained from the tracheal exudate. Mortality varies, but may reach 50% in adults, and is usually due to occlusion of the trachea by hemorrhage or exudate. Signs usually subside after ~2 wk, although birds may cough for 1 mo. Strains of low virulence produce little or no mortality with slight respiratory signs and lesions and a slight decrease in egg production.
After recovery, some birds remain carriers for extended periods and become a source of infection for susceptible birds. The latent virus can be reactivated under stressful conditions. Infection also may be spread mechanically. Several epidemics have been traced to the transport of birds in contaminated crates



http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/206700.htm

 

[nnbreeder]

Since they responded to the Baytril better then the Denagard I would almost say that you had Coryza in the flock. Traditionally Baytril is the drug of choice for Coryza. Another possibility could be fowl Cholera but without testing it would be hard to pin down.

Looked at the fees for testing. Are they serious?

 

[chickengrl]

Quote from post above "With severe cases of ILT the first sign for the keeper is usually that the inside of the coop looks like it has been painted with blood from about knee high down. Blood vessels in the throat rupture and to try to keep the airway clear the birds toss and fling their heads about."

We only had one bird have the bleeding from the throat. Found him dead on the coop floor and blood all over the hanging feeder. We were pretty confused by it because the bird was lethargic and not eating well, but no sneezing or coughing. We never even saw him having difficulty breathing. We thought he fought with another rooster, but there were no injuries we could see. We never put that all together until we had the diagnosis. Then we had the light bulb moment. These diseases are hard to diagnose without the necropsy.

 

[rcentner]

That's a tough call, I will do more research and see if I can nail down the differences between ILT, Coryza and MG.
I have not seen any blood on anyone that died or has recovered just yellow discharge. It was a while ago I was looking at the diseases and maybe I missed something. I think one of the definative signs that lead me to MG was the blackened stools. but idk if that comes about with other diseases. And if I am having a dual infection, which I do recall reading that there are a few that are synergistic then I may never know. Even my DH said the other day when the chicks died that he thinks we are dealing with something real bad. I just hope that it doesn't keep spreading 1 bird at a time. Almost the whole flock was affected at one point and now I seem to have stragglers, 1 at a time. Wish it was easier to give the baytril, I feel bad struggling with the sick ones and worry that the stress of handling them will be the straw that broke the camels back.

thank you all for your help. They all got out to free range today cause it was real nice this afternoon. I was thinking about what kind of stress could've brought this to such an extreme level and all I can think is the weather changing. It's been a rollercoaster around here...from 25 to 60 degrees in 1 day sometimes. I also switched food from the flock raiser to the layena when my little ones got to be mature.

the other odd thing is that (I hate to risk jinxing them) some of my chickens have never been ill. Not once. One in particular is older and has been here for years, prior to my flock accumulating the leghorns that introduced this illness. But she no longer lays eggs too, so many factors involved.