Cream Legbar Club -- WWIT

[Laingcroft]

In regards to a person having CL's without a crest, and then having to be informed it's not up to standard and isn't a Cream Legbar... Well, the UK had it right at the start when they called the Crested Cream Legbars...

I respectfully have to disagree with this. I rec'd my Cream Legbars direct from Greenfire Farm but they do not have crests (only very few head feathers that I wouldn't call crests) That does not make them "not Cream Legbars" it only makes them not "show quality" Cream Legbars once we have a standard that defines what "show quality" is going to be. When I sell their eggs I do disclose that they do not have crests but they are still pure Cream Legbars.

I hate to pick on the Ameraucana club again, but they have had quite a bit of uproar/division over one faction calling anything not one of the recognized colors 'Easter Eggers' even if they are genetically and by pedigree ancestry, pure Ameraucanas. Personally I'd rather avoid that sort of nonsense. It doesn't accomplish anything but to annoy people, particularly since breeding those non-recognized birds to recognized birds often produce offspring that could be classified as "recognized."

I am in the process of acquiring crested stock, but I am going to maintain my non-crested stock for crossing as long as they carry on the excellent egg production they've displayed thus far i.e. earlier and longer egg laying along with high fertility.

 

[Laingcroft]

The $12.00 dues per year is a good number for the reason posted, however, it is pointless to charge dues until there is a need. What is the dues to cover? Website maintenance? Fees for a forum? Postage for snail mail newsletters for those in rural areas with dial-up that may not be able to access online docs or even postage for mailing out ballots to vote. Every club I've belonged to still sends those out by snail mail. Most stuff (i.e. officers's duties) will be by volunteers. The question is what stuff will we need money for? Sponsoring the breed at shows with trophies or awards, APA membership for the club (not sure if this is done or if there is a fee for it), any APA fees associated with filing an SOP, creating logo stuff for resale, etc.

For those of you unable to access the documents on the Yahoo group, here is the first draft of the Club Constitution and By-laws. This is a work in progress. Remarks for discussion are in blue


DRAFT Constitution and By-laws

Article I - Name
American Cream Legbar Club If we choose to adopt a standard significantly different from the UK standard we will have American Cream Legbars, not “Cream Legbars” or do we want to call them “Crested Cream Legbars?”
If following UK standard very closely, then perhaps Cream Legbar Club of America (or North America to include Canadian members?)

Article II – Purpose (or Mission Statement)
Mission: The promotion and preservation of the Cream Legbar breed of chicken developed by R.C. Punnett that is an autosexing, blue-egg-laying and crested light fowl.
This would only apply if we are actually keeping 99.9% of the breed type as developed by Prof. Punnett. Subject to change as the Standard develops.

To that end, the goals of the club are:

• To promote interest in, knowledge and ultimately breeding and exhibiting under an APA approved standard, the [American] Cream Legbar
• To establish the first Chicken Pedigree Database to track the chicken bloodline and genetics of Cream Legbar chickens (Consensus hasn’t been reached on this yet, nor the specifics of what will be contained in the dbase.)
• To encourage friendship, goodwill, cooperation and sportsmanship among [American] Cream Legbar fanciers in the development, breeding, husbandry and advancement of the breed
• To encourage club members to breed their [American] Cream Legbar chickens with integrity and in the spirit of cooperation with other members toward the Standard of Perfection so as to maintain its auto-sexing, blue-egg laying and crested characteristics that make this breed unique
• To prevent fraudulent practices in the breeding, exhibiting and selling of [American] Cream Legbar chickens
• (Any focus on youth and youth activities? They are the future of any breed.)

Article III – Officers

Section 1
The Officers of the [Insert Official Club Name when decided] shall consist of a President, Vice-President, Secretary, Treasurer, and [#] Regional Directors.

Section 2
The officers of this club shall be elected for a term of ____ year(s) by ballot of the members, counted at an annual meeting? By polling of membership? Limitation on the number of terms in total or consecutively?] When will elections take place? Who can nominate (assumption is consent must be provided by the nominee!) or is volunteering sufficient? When should terms start and end?

Section 3 Optional
A vacancy that arises between elections [if two year terms with portion elected annually, could avoid this?] shall be filled by special election within x number of weeks, months, etc. following the withdrawal or resignation.

Section 4
In order to hold an office, an individual must be [any terms i.e. member in good standing, etc. or leave out] Acceptance of any office is an acknowledgement on the part of the incumbent that s/he is willing and able to carry out the duties of the office.

Section 5
Any member may resign his/her position in form? notice method? Notice period? If fiduciary responsibility is involved, process for turnover. What about removal from office?

Section 6
Duties of Officers:
President shall be a member in good standing of and act as Chairman of the Board of Directors. S/he shall see that the constitution and by-laws shall be properly executed and that other officers shall fulfill their duties. The President shall preside over all meetings, decide all questions of order, sign all official/legal documents adopted by the club, may call a special meeting with advance notice (define time frame), may appoint committees to carry on the business of the Club and all other duties pertaining to the office of the President. Anything else? President’s report for any newsletter?

Vice President shall assume all the duties of the President in his/her absence. The Vice President shall vote on all issues before the Board, organize club activities,…

Secretary shall keep the minutes for any meeting of the Board and post them within (timeframe and location i.e. newsletter, website, etc.) Secretary shall also receive members dues and issue membership cards, maintain the membership directory (print or dbase?) Issue notices of meetings? Other duties?

Treasurer shall maintain accurate records of all financial transactions of the club, receive monies paid to the club and handle purchase for the club (and inventory control for club related stuff for sale, if any?) Treasurer shall post (quarterly? annual?) financial statements (on website? In newsletter?) This paragraph should also cover and distribution/disbursement of assets at dissolution of the club should it occur.

Also, will Secretary/Treasurer positions be held by one person or family member? Usually best not to be.

Duties of the District Directors? Districts to follow APA districts? New?

Section 7
Communication with the membership at large shall be via …what? Email, Newsletter, Club Forum, Snail mail, online meetings?

Section 8
Meetings – annually? Quarterly? Online? Governed by Robert’s Rules of Order?

Article IV - Membership
Membership shall be open to all persons willing to abide by and promote the stated mission and goals of the [American] Cream Legbar Club. Membership shall be by application and payment of dues. Voting rights? If dues not paid timely?

Article V – Dues
Annual dues shall be levied against the membership annually as provided in the By-laws. Dues shall be paid to the Secretary by mail [or paypal? Will need to confirm that a club can register for paypal without being a corporate (non-profit) entity. Should not be under an individual’s paypal account.] Amount set at ? Annual on Jan 1 or another fiscal year? Terms for good standing?

Article VI - Permanent Committees and Other Positions
Standard Committee – APA Liaison?
Database Manager?
Youth Coordinator? Scholarships?
Webmaster?
Newsletter/Editor?
Lifetime Achievement? - Breeder? Exhibitor? Youth Education?
Historian?

Article VII - Process for Writing/Amending By-laws or Constitution
The Constitution of the [American] Cream Legbar Club or its Bylaws may be amended by a two-thirds vote of the total membership. Proposals for amendment shall be submitted in writing to the club Secretary and included in the Newsletter [and/or any other form of notice.] The proposed amendments shall be voted on during the next election of officers.

 

[ChicKat]

I respectfully have to disagree with this. I rec'd my Cream Legbars direct from Greenfire Farm but they do not have crests (only very few head feathers that I wouldn't call crests) That does not make them "not Cream Legbars" it only makes them not "show quality" Cream Legbars once we have a standard that defines what "show quality" is going to be. When I sell their eggs I do disclose that they do not have crests but they are still pure Cream Legbars.

I hate to pick on the Ameraucana club again, but they have had quite a bit of uproar/division over one faction calling anything not one of the recognized colors 'Easter Eggers' even if they are genetically and by pedigree ancestry, pure Ameraucanas. Personally I'd rather avoid that sort of nonsense. It doesn't accomplish anything but to annoy people, particularly since breeding those non-recognized birds to recognized birds often produce offspring that could be classified as "recognized."

I am in the process of acquiring crested stock, but I am going to maintain my non-crested stock for crossing as long as they carry on the excellent egg production they've displayed thus far i.e. earlier and longer egg laying along with high fertility.

I'm so glad that you pointed this out...... and reminded us about the crested and non-crested authentic birds.

This is why also, that I would like to see blood-lines. I understand that a crest is dominant---so eventually all the clbs should have crests in ---let's say 5-years when we are going to be looking for entry to the APA. IF I was in search of exactly the traits that you approve of your flock for.....excellent egg production and earlier, longer laying with high fertility, I would be very comfortable getting birds from you knowing that they originated from Greenfire Farms.

I never realized that two Ameraucanas could produce a non-Ameraucana..... The idea by Stoneunhenged of a fairly open acceptance for 3-years is all the more reasonable.

I guess every club to which I have belonged had some expenses--- and thus had some dues..... I suppose it would be interesting to project a first year's budget for a club and see if it could be kept at zero. Glad that you brought that up.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

The way I view the non crested birds is like a white chicken showing up in a flock. You know that the parents carry the genes for it and it could pop up even in the best flocks. But if you breed it back to a good bird, you'll get what you want, just that individual bird can't be shown but can be used as a breeder to produce good birds.

Even in the best crested flocks, non crested birds will still pop up from time to time. They should have the same conformation as the siblings and when bred to the right rooster should throw mostly crested birds. If everything is great except the crest, breed from it to improve the flock.

I personally will only be breeding for crests but if one pops up, I may use it in a breeding pen. Well, actually thinking back to my first birds, I got a trio from GFF, the pair was crested and the other pullet was smooth headed. I was going to use her for another project but she passed on before she layed any eggs.

 

[ChicKat]

Have added some more things to the Yahoo Group that Laingcroft started..

 

[Laingcroft]

I too love the crested birds and plan to breed for them as well.

When I purchased my girls from Greenfire I have to admit I was disappointed when they did not develop crests; however, when mid-June rolled around and those girls (rec'd as day old chicks on March 18) started laying, while my January hatch (variety of other breeds) still weren't, I wasn't so disappointed anymore. One went broody and hatched chicks while the other continued laying, granted not daily, until mid-October. I do not use lights in my coops.

 

[MnMPoultry]

I respectfully have to disagree with this. I rec'd my Cream Legbars direct from Greenfire Farm but they do not have crests (only very few head feathers that I wouldn't call crests) That does not make them "not Cream Legbars" it only makes them not "show quality" Cream Legbars once we have a standard that defines what "show quality" is going to be. When I sell their eggs I do disclose that they do not have crests but they are still pure Cream Legbars.

I hate to pick on the Ameraucana club again, but they have had quite a bit of uproar/division over one faction calling anything not one of the recognized colors 'Easter Eggers' even if they are genetically and by pedigree ancestry, pure Ameraucanas. Personally I'd rather avoid that sort of nonsense. It doesn't accomplish anything but to annoy people, particularly since breeding those non-recognized birds to recognized birds often produce offspring that could be classified as "recognized."

I am in the process of acquiring crested stock, but I am going to maintain my non-crested stock for crossing as long as they carry on the excellent egg production they've displayed thus far i.e. earlier and longer egg laying along with high fertility.

Fine by me. There's a reason I'm not a member of certain clubs.

 

[ChicKat]

Everyone working on the constitution document I sent a PM....

Laingcroft; MnMPoultry; normanack; lonnyandrinda; faykokoWV; MrsMoonCat; babymakes6; chickat

if you didn't get the PM or you are in that Yahoo group and I didn't recognize your name from there to here---please PM me or one of the group for a forward of that message. Thanks...

 

[Hangtown Farms]

I respectfully have to disagree with this. I rec'd my Cream Legbars direct from Greenfire Farm but they do not have crests (only very few head feathers that I wouldn't call crests) That does not make them "not Cream Legbars" it only makes them not "show quality" Cream Legbars once we have a standard that defines what "show quality" is going to be. When I sell their eggs I do disclose that they do not have crests but they are still pure Cream Legbars.

I hate to pick on the Ameraucana club again, but they have had quite a bit of uproar/division over one faction calling anything not one of the recognized colors 'Easter Eggers' even if they are genetically and by pedigree ancestry, pure Ameraucanas. Personally I'd rather avoid that sort of nonsense. It doesn't accomplish anything but to annoy people, particularly since breeding those non-recognized birds to recognized birds often produce offspring that could be classified as "recognized."

I am in the process of acquiring crested stock, but I am going to maintain my non-crested stock for crossing as long as they carry on the excellent egg production they've displayed thus far i.e. earlier and longer egg laying along with high fertility.

The Ameraucana deal is completely different IMO. Many people are breeding Easter Eggers ( nothing wrong with Easter Eggers ) but passing them off as Ameraucana's . In many instances the breeder breeding them has no idea. Sometimes they do and falsely pass them off as true. This belittles all the hard work many people have put in over the years. That is why even if two seperate varieties are breed they call them Easter Eggers generally. So I get both sides of it but understand why they are easter eggers or project Ameraucana's until they become a approved variety. Heck look at all the True Ameraucana's on Ebay right now. Yesterday out of the 18 there was 1 person selling wheaten's that actually looked correct. I had a back and forth argument with someone selling what was called a blue over wheaten. suprisngly there chickens looked exactly like the feed store easter eggers I got a few years back.... lol


That is all. Basically my point is I dont think we should compare this club with the Ameraucana club. Btw I like the crestless Legbars myself as well as the crested and think they should both be admited.
Jason

 

[fowlman01]

The Ameraucana deal is completely different IMO. Many people are breeding Easter Eggers ( nothing wrong with Easter Eggers ) but passing them off as Ameraucana's . In many instances the breeder breeding them has no idea. Sometimes they do and falsely pass them off as true. This belittles all the hard work many people have put in over the years. That is why even if two seperate varieties are breed they call them Easter Eggers generally. So I get both sides of it but understand why they are easter eggers or project Ameraucana's until they become a approved variety. Heck look at all the True Ameraucana's on Ebay right now. Yesterday out of the 18 there was 1 person selling wheaten's that actually looked correct. I had a back and forth argument with someone selling what was called a blue over wheaten. suprisngly there chickens looked exactly like the feed store easter eggers I got a few years back.... lol


That is all. Basically my point is I dont think we should compare this club with the Ameraucana club. Btw I like the crestless Legbars myself as well as the crested and think they should both be admited.
Jason

The AM Club is a bit strange in that they don't call lavender AM's Easter eggers....but by their own definition they are since they are not a recognized APA/ABA color...neither organizations use "lavender" to describe any chicken in their Standards. This group does need to be diligent because I am already running across Cream Legbar crosses....intentional crosses. On BYC and facebook I have seen CLB X Salmon Faverolle as an example. As more of your breed get out there, there will be people crossing them with the craziest stuff you can think of. They are not going to keep records nor are they going to tell people they are crosses, because that will not even occur to them.
It will never be as bad as the AM problem, but it will be bad. The Marans folks are still dealing with this kind of thing.

If you want both crested and non crested you will need to have 50 of each at the APA Qualifying meet 5 years from now. 50 very good ones in each variety. They can be qualified individually though.....which I would suggest. If you pick the one that meets the British SOP first, then the other can be treated as a variety and it is less complicated that way. If you start with the non crested, then it will be different than the Brit SOP and you should call the breed "American" CLB. I don't recommend that though, as it tends to dilute the prestige of a breed that was developed in another country.

Walt