Cream Legbar Hybrid Thread

[jerryse]

Will a CCL Rooster over a Welsummer hen produce a sex link chick (white spot on male's head)? Does anyone have any pictures of that cross or the color of eggs it produces? I'd think the eggs would be olive?

Thanks,
Deborah

No all will be single barred . You need barred hens and a non barred rooster for this to work .

 

[ronott1]

Will a CCL Rooster over a Welsummer hen produce a sex link chick (white spot on male's head)? Does anyone have any pictures of that cross or the color of eggs it produces? I'd think the eggs would be olive?

Thanks,
Deborah

You have to have barred hens and a solid rooster to make black sex links. I do not think there is any silver so not red sex links either.

No all will be single barred . You need barred hens and a non barred rooster for this to work .

 

[DeborahSfbay]

No all will be single barred . You need barred hens and a non barred rooster for this to work .

Thanks, but since the because welsummers and legbars both have e+ wildtype and the cross will be e+/e+ B/b- for pullets and e+/e+ B/b+ for the Roos and produce the head spot? I have a 60 year old 4H book I'm referencing and the genetics remind me of a calculus class. Have you made this cross? I'm hoping that someone has and can let me know for sure?

Deborah

 

[ronott1]

Thanks, but since the because welsummers and legbars both have e+ wildtype and the cross will be e+/e+ B/b- for pullets and e+/e+ B/b+ for the Roos and produce the head spot? I have a 60 year old 4H book I'm referencing and the genetics remind me of a calculus class. Have you made this cross? I'm hoping that someone has and can let me know for sure?

Deborah

Go to the sexlink thread and see--Do a search of the thread--it is located at the top of each thread page--it says search this thread. Do not use the one at the very top of the page.

Barring has to be female sexlinked: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/261208/sex-linked-information

Black Sex-linked

There are two important genes that must be a part of a black sex-linked cross; the E locus allele called extended black (E) and the sex-linked barring gene (B). The Barred Plymouth rock carries both E and B and both genes are used as the female side in commercial black sex linked crosses while the male side of the cross is a Rhode Island Red or a New Hampshire. Birchen birds at times can be used in black sex linked crosses. It is best to leave the use of birchen birds to individuals that have tested the birds for the correct genotype. If birchen birds do not have the correct genotype, the offspring will not be black sex linked.

A few specifics to remember about a black sex-linked cross are:

1) the female must carry sex-linked barring (barred),

2) the male can not carry sex-linked barring (male can not be barred),

3) one of the birds must be homozygous for extended black or carry two extended black genes and

4) neither of the birds can carry dominant white or in other words be a white bird. Some recessive white birds may work on the male side of the cross but you never know if it will work or not work. So I suggest not using white birds.

5). Almost any variety (color) of male ( not including white or barred ) can be used in a black sex linked cross. White birds sometimes carry dominant white and or barring which would not work in a black sex linked cross. White males that do not carry dominant white or barring will work as the male in a black sex linked cross. White males like the white wyandotte or the white plymouth rock will work if they do not carry dominant white or barring.

In a black sex-linked cross, the female will only contribute the barring gene to the male offspring. So the adult males will be black and barred. The female offspring will receive their sex linked trait from the father; in this case, the recessive gene for no barring. So the females will not be barred as adults.

It is also important that the chick down has a black dorsal surface, back and top of the head; this allows for the barring gene to be expressed as a white or cream spot on top of the male chicks head. See Illustration 5. This is why a white bird that carries dominant white can not be used to produce black sex linked chicks. The top of the head would be white and the white spot will not show. Males that carry barring can not be used because the males will produce females chicks with white spots on their heads.

The top of a female chicks head will be a solid black color. See Illustration 6. The chicks in the pictures do not have a white belly like many other black sex linked chicks.

 

[dretd]

Will a CCL Rooster over a Welsummer hen produce a sex link chick (white spot on male's head)? Does anyone have any pictures of that cross or the color of eggs it produces? I'd think the eggs would be olive?

Thanks,
Deborah

Hi DeborahSfbay!

I have not done the cross myself yet--its a project for this summer. I have a Wellie roo and two hens, then I have some CLB girls that aren't going to make the cut for Legbar breeders but make lots of nice blue/green eggies so I will keep you posted on how their olive eggs work out. I am wondering if there would be a difference in egg color if you used the Wellie girls vs the CLB girls to make the OEs?

A sexlink can be made one of two ways:
1) A Red Sexlink is the product of a Silver Female (she only has 1 copy of the Silver) and red male=>all of the boys get Silver from mom and none of the girls get silver so the boys are single dilute (white/brassy with red leakage) and the girls will be red/brown like pop.
2) A Black Sexlink can be made by using a barred female (only 1 copy of the barring gene) and a red male=> all of the boys will have one copy of the barring gene and the girls will have none. The final colors will depend on the base color of the pair--traditionally something like a barred rock was used so they ended up black based, but with the e+/CLB, that is not the case.

So your hypothetical cross of a Cream Legbar boy with a Wellie girl will lead to hatching both chick sexes with a single barring gene and thus they are not sex-linked. The reverse, however, using a Legbar hen crossed with a Wellie boy will leave you with no barred girls (will look similar to a Wellie) and barred males (will be wild type with a small dot on the head. Given that many strains of Welsummers are sexable at hatch anyway, it would further blur out the male's head V so it may end up being very nondescript frosted and may have a distinct spot.

Looks like Ronott1 beat me to the reply with a very detailed excellent link. The link talks about the black sexlink being created using a barred female but they only list Marans and BRs based birds and don't talk about e+ so the offspring will not be the 'black' sexlinked that we normally think of.

 

[DeborahSfbay]

Hi DeborahSfbay!

I have not done the cross myself yet--its a project for this summer. I have a Wellie roo and two hens, then I have some CLB girls that aren't going to make the cut for Legbar breeders but make lots of nice blue/green eggies so I will keep you posted on how their olive eggs work out. I am wondering if there would be a difference in egg color if you used the Wellie girls vs the CLB girls to make the OEs?

A sexlink can be made one of two ways:
1) A Red Sexlink is the product of a Silver Female (she only has 1 copy of the Silver) and red male=>all of the boys get Silver from mom and none of the girls get silver so the boys are single dilute (white/brassy with red leakage) and the girls will be red/brown like pop.
2) A Black Sexlink can be made by using a barred female (only 1 copy of the barring gene) and a red male=> all of the boys will have one copy of the barring gene and the girls will have none. The final colors will depend on the base color of the pair--traditionally something like a barred rock was used so they ended up black based, but with the e+/CLB, that is not the case.

So your hypothetical cross of a Cream Legbar boy with a Wellie girl will lead to hatching both chick sexes with a single barring gene and thus they are not sex-linked. The reverse, however, using a Legbar hen crossed with a Wellie boy will leave you with no barred girls (will look similar to a Wellie) and barred males (will be wild type with a small dot on the head. Given that many strains of Welsummers are sexable at hatch anyway, it would further blur out the male's head V so it may end up being very nondescript frosted and may have a distinct spot.

Looks like Ronott1 beat me to the reply with a very detailed excellent link. The link talks about the black sexlink being created using a barred female but they only list Marans and BRs based birds and don't talk about e+ so the offspring will not be the 'black' sexlinked that we normally think of.

Thanks to everyone for the information. I think I was hoping it would be so a little too much. And I'd love to see the eggs when you get them!!!!

 

[Junibutt]

They are sure pretty chickens!!

thanks!

 

[Junibutt]

Nice!

Do you have eggs yet?

No eggs yet, I think they still have about 4-6 weeks to go. By ISA Brown standards, Rosalina should have started laying now but seems like CCL portion of her genes have delayed the maturity.

Anyone else who may have crossed RIR x CCL or CCL x Red Star, what ages did they start laying?

I am waiting to see whether Peach or Rosalina lays a darker shade of green egg and then planning on crossing her with Bowser. Original plan was crossing Bowser with his mother (ISA Brown), however, she is not laying since she lost her foot to frostbite and I am not sure if she will lay again. All comments/suggestions are appreciated.

 

[sol2go]

I am wondering if there would be a difference in egg color if you used the Wellie girls vs the CLB girls to make the OEs?

I have a CL Roo with Welsummer girls, I'll post what I see at some point (still need to hatch that mix…).

To compare what I currently have, the offspring of a CL Roo x Crele Penedesenca lay lighter olive eggs than the offspring of a BCMarans Roo x CL hen (which lay a dark olive egg); not apples to apples, just for the record...

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Hi FMP,

could you define "smutty leaky" with regards to a silver crele offspring (of a CL Roo)?
Do you suppose that would be a "tell" for silver if a "non-buttery" CL is mated with a "buttery" CL?

Some days I have trouble thinking of the right words so bear with me! Habe you ever seen a light brahma hen with a dark back? Imagine that with barring. Or a good example is like my silver ambar hen.