Cream Legbar Hybrid Thread

[jerryse]

1. If you cross a CL Roo with another breed when would you expect to see (or chances of seeing) white spots on cockerel chicks or chipmunk stripes?.

2. Same question but for a CL Hen with another breed? Is it different? Why?

I will try to answer these 2 questions . #1 in this case all chicks will inherit 1 barring gene . So you can not sex these at hatch .

#2 will produce sex links . Only males will inherit 1 copy of the barring gene from their mother .

They are different because the CL male has 2 barring genes which he passes on 1 barring gene to each sex . Barred hens can only have 1 barring gene (hemizygous ) which she passes only to her sons . Making sex links possible .

The barring gene has a dosage effect on color . So 2 copies makes CL cockerels lighter with the large head spot .

Female chicks with 1 copy barring are darker with a very small head spot or no head spot . Single copy barring on males look the same . That is why you can not sex the chicks in question #1

 

[chicken pickin]

1. If you cross a CL Roo with another breed when would you expect to see (or chances of seeing) white spots on cockerel chicks or chipmunk stripes?.

2. Same question but for a CL Hen with another breed? Is it different? Why?

I will try to answer these 2 questions . #1 in this case all chicks will inherit 1 barring gene . So you can not sex these at hatch .

#2 will produce sex links . Only males will inherit 1 copy of the barring gene from their mother .

They are different because the CL male has 2 barring genes which he passes on 1 barring gene to each sex . Barred hens can only have 1 barring gene (hemizygous ) which she passes only to her sons . Making sex links possible .

The barring gene has a dosage effect on color . So 2 copies makes CL cockerels lighter with the large head spot .

Female chicks with 1 copy barring are darker with a very small head spot or no head spot . Single copy barring on males look the same . That is why you can not sex the chicks in question #1

Very good explaination.

Just thought I would add one more bit of info for the red highlighted sentence - CL males are gold based if you cross them to a silver based hen they will produce Red Sexlinks. They will both still get one barring gene so you cannot sex them by head spot, but you can sex them by down color.

 

[Junibutt]

Very good explaination.

Just thought I would add one more bit of info for the red highlighted sentence - CL males are gold based if you cross them to a silver based hen they will produce Red Sexlinks. They will both still get one barring gene so you cannot sex them by head spot, but you can sex them by down color.

FYI @chicken pickin helped me identify this trait with my CL roo x Light Brahma hybrids. I doubted her (shame on me) and waited for them to grow to confirm and I am happy to say that the following 3 chicks (on the left) have all grown up to be females (6 weeks old now) and the 1 to the right male.



P.S. The middle pullet almost looked like a Legbar at hatch and I was only able to differentiate her based on her leg feathers. Even now she looks Legbarish. I will post a pic when I get a chance.

Ok. I found the pic:

 

[Mama Bay]

FYI @chicken pickin helped me identify this trait with my CL roo x Light Brahma hybrids. I doubted her (shame on me) and waited for them to grow to confirm and I am happy to say that the following 3 chicks (on the left) have all grown up to be females (6 weeks old now) and the 1 to the right male. P.S. The middle pullet almost looked like a Legbar at hatch and I was only able to differentiate her based on her leg feathers. Even now she looks Legbarish. I will post a pic when I get a chance. Ok. I found the pic:

She's a beauty!

 

[nicalandia]

Would any of our esteemed CL genetics folks be willing to answer some general "Cream Legbar Genetics for dummies" questions? In simple language for dummies? Yes like me.

Like:

1. If you cross a CL Roo with another breed when would you expect to see (or chances of seeing) white spots on cockerel chicks or chipmunk stripes?

2. Same question but for a CL Hen with another breed? Is it different? Why?

A CL hybrid may be sex-linked but isn't likely to be auto-sexing through the generations, right? Or not?

3. If you cross a CL with a brown egg layer, you'll probably get some shade of green egg? How does that work? Do the egg laying colors combine?

4. If you cross a CL with another blue egg layer like a pure Ameraucana, or an EE hen that lays blue eggs, would you likely see blue eggs?

5. If you cross a CL with a white egg layer, would you expect to see blue eggs? White eggs? Very light blue eggs?

6. What cross would you think would give the deepest blue eggs?

7. Can you recommend a good source for reading about genetics, for non-science majors? In other words, for dummies?

Thank you!!!

Leslie

1. if cross to ER(Birchen allele) or Extended Black(all black birds, most of them are based on the E/E allele) will produce(both genders as CL roo would be passing his sex linked barring gene to both genders)Black chicks(yellow underbelly) with a headspot, so no sex links here, IF cross to a none barred breed that has these e alleles: wheaten(eWh), eb(brown but also called partridge) or another e+ most of the chicks will show an intermediate(some more than others) chipmunk stripes but no sign of headspot on the males or females you can stil create gold/silver sex links if you cross the CL roo over a Silver based hen(with eb,eWh or e+ allele)

2. any Black or Birchen(gold based or silver based) rooster crossed to a CL hen will produce black Sexlinks, males will show the headspot on head but females wont(both chick down are black with crea underbelly) any other e allele(like ewh,eb, e+) the male chicks will not display the headspot, these mixes can only achieve autosexing trait yet again IF you cross the F1 together and select the double barred males(the only ones capable of showing a headspot)

3. the combine but at a different layers, Blue egg shell gene is Partially dominant(it has a compound effect Homozygotes O/O show a richer color) and the Brown egg shell its not a single gene its a Polygenic trait(some sexlinked). while the blue egg shell affects the entire egg shell, the brown eggshell only affects the outer shell, its like a paint(if you sand down any green eggs, they will become bluer untill the brown paint is gone)

4. CL and Araucana/Ameraucana/EE have the same O mutation if you combine both then the results will be a homozygous blue egger(one O gene from CL and the other O gene from Araucana/Ameraucana/EE)

5. if you cross a pure CL to a White leghorn you will produce what is called a "Super blue egg layer" but its not that their eggs are super blue in color but that they lay blue eggs at a super egger rate, their egg color will be lighter in shade because they will only cary one copy of the blue egg shell gene(O/o+ as opposed to O/O homozygotes.

6. personally I think CL x Native South American blue eggers will produce the deepest blue eggs, I have a friend that she has isolated what she calls a Shiny egg gene(autosomal recessive) and a Mate egg shell gene(autosomal dominant) this shiny egg gene will allow for pullets to lay shiny blue eggs like some south american native hens (source http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=107835&page=all )

7. http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=107835&page=all

 

[ChicKat]

Would any of our esteemed CL genetics folks be willing to answer some general "Cream Legbar Genetics for dummies" questions? In simple language for dummies? Yes like me.

Like:

1. If you cross a CL Roo with another breed when would you expect to see (or chances of seeing) white spots on cockerel chicks or chipmunk stripes?


Leslie

Let me add one more thing... if the 'any other breed' you chose happened to be a hen with barring - then you could see the head spot. This was the idea behind IceCream Bars -- the mothers were hybrid of Isbar paired with a Cream Legbar cockerel - and so they had that one barring gene. Then paired with the CL male -- the male babies got the head spots. It was to see if autosexing could be developed for Isbar-like chicken -- Correct me if I'm wrong IceCream Bar people who went this route.

 

[nicalandia]

Let me add one more thing... if the 'any other breed' you chose happened to be a hen with barring - then you could see the head spot. This was the idea behind IceCream Bars -- the mothers were hybrid of Isbar paired with a Cream Legbar cockerel - and so they had that one barring gene. Then paired with the CL male -- the male babies got the head spots. It was to see if autosexing could be developed for Isbar-like chicken -- Correct me if I'm wrong IceCream Bar people who went this route.

I agree on your first post about a barred hen, BUT Isbars are melanized blue/black/slplash Birchen? ER/ER B/B and ER/ER B/- chicks are autosexable already

 

[ChicKat]

I agree on your first post about a barred hen, BUT Isbars are melanized blue/black/slplash Birchen? ER/ER B/B and ER/ER B/- chicks are autosexable already

Actually the ones that most of us have raised aren't autosexing -- and I guess you and I should take this up in an Isbar thread -- but in the USA we only have Blue Isbars -- and they don't show barring... the chicks (and mine were a couple weeks old when I got them in the mail so I could be mistaken here) -- don't show headspots.

hope you are doing great -- good to know you are still zooming around the threads!

ETA - 'Blue Isbar' is what we kind of consider the breed because they are the only Isbars that we have. Martin Silveruud developed a barred Isbar I think but - i haven't seen any nor know of anyone who has...so yest the plumage is B-Bl-S -- but the chicks at hatch aren't distinguishable to my knowledge - which is why the IceCream Bar route was a road to an autosexing Isbar.

 

[nicalandia]

Actually the ones that most of us have raised aren't autosexing -- and I guess you and I should take this up in an Isbar thread -- but in the USA we only have Blue Isbars -- and they don't show barring... the chicks (and mine were a couple weeks old when I got them in the mail so I could be mistaken here) -- don't show headspots.

hope you are doing great -- good to know you are still zooming around the threads!

ETA - 'Blue Isbar' is what we kind of consider the breed because they are the only Isbars that we have. Martin Silveruud developed a barred Isbar I think but - i haven't seen any nor know of anyone who has...so yest the plumage is B-Bl-S -- but the chicks at hatch aren't distinguishable to my knowledge - which is why the IceCream Bar route was a road to an autosexing Isbar.

Thanks alot for caring chickat

I was addressing your question/post about adding barring gene to the Blue Isbars to see if autosexing could be achieved, and I said, that Isbars were Silver Birchen(melanized) and going by other Barred Birchen breeds(gold/silver cuckoo marans) ER/ER B/B and ER/ER B/- chicks can infact be autosexalbe so nothing to "Experiment" or wander about here, barring does produce autosexing chicks on Birchen allele


Gold Cuckoo maran(based on ER s+/s+ B/B) chicks, females will show a headspot but its small and they are much darker than the males, Males headspot will be larger and extend to the back they are also much lighter due to the compound effect of Barring on ER e allele

 

[flowerchild59]

Sorry if this is a duplicate from the cream legbar thread but was advised that I might get answers here. I have a trio of CL's, the pullets are yet to be laying, but the young cockerel has been in with a mixed flock. I allowed one of my hens to sit on three white eggs (only have one male, and one leghorn so I know who is who when laying). The three eggs hatched today, so I am happy with fertility on this young lad . One was definitely yellow based and the other two were darker. Pictures are posted. Can someone explain the difference in these chicks? And no, there are no other males in the mixed flock. I haven't seen the two young pullet CL's in the nest boxes. I only set the three white leghorn eggs, I thought the leghorn/CL mix would make for good egg layers for next year. Here are pics of the leghorn female and the CL rooster. The female was supposed to be a SBEL, but looks more to me like a leghorn, she lays pure white eggs. She has faint splotches on her that are either bluish or grays in color. (and just to reiterate, the three chicks here have the same male and female pairing. No other roos in the pen). I am just amazed at the color differences.