Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[nicalandia]

Also, just curious if you saw that cream dilute hen one of my friends posted on facebook that I tagged you in a comment in on facebook?

yes I did, but I could not post...

 

[nicalandia]

nice. this will help me explain things a little bit..


Why Cream Crele(homozygous for cream the the barring gene ig/ig B/B) should look nearly silver? Simple. two doses of the Barring gene will Turn any none red enhanced light brown male into a Cream colored bird all by itself.. now adding the powerful pheomelanin diluter ig/ig to the mix will only fade this birds to be nearly silver looking, this goes for the females aswell.


Correct colored Males are genetically s+/s+ B/B ig/ig without any type of red enhancers thats why they look nearly silver.(going by source https://sites.google.com/site/creamlegbarsonline/home)









but you will say Oh no that cant be true. my birds look Way different...! why? well thats a debate we(Me and Tim adkerson) have going on on this subject. Are the American Cream Legbar Red ENHANCED? I say no Doubt about it..

how do we know that? well lets look at a reference bird. lets take a look at the light brown dutch bantam. second only to the Red Jungle Fowl on its wild genes nature. this birds(I will be using Mr. Henk´s birds for reference) are not Red enhanced at all so a double dose of barring should turn them into Cream crele looking birds all by them self(cream not silver)

Here Mr. Henk double dose(B/B) none red enhanced gold bird s+/s+ lacking cream also so not cream. see how diluted it looks all by itself.. take a deep look at his saddle feathers


now lets take a look at Green Fire Farms 2012 and 2013 stock


2013 stock, still has some red enhancers on him, check his saddle feathers.



2012 Stock. now this is just Bad, too red enhanced(compared to the none cream crele Dutch bantam belonging to Henk)






Now to the Females.



how can alot of hens like the one above look like that if they have the Barring gene AND the Cream gene? Red Enhancers Tim...RED ENHANCERS(or lack of cream, but I wont go into that)

how can we know that? well lets take a look at Henk´s Crele Dutch hens, which lack cream, BUT lack the red enhancers found on other birds.



oh but they look kind of cream on the hackle! you can thank Barring for that...ChicKat take a close look at their breat, see how pale they look? no red enhancers...unlike the above hen´s enhanced salmon breast


how to go about getting rid of Red enhancers? stop breeding red enhanced birds with more red enhanced birds..

if you want leghorn type why not cross to Silver Leghorns?

how would a Cream Legbar male to a Silver Leghorn female look like?

Golden Crele, Male´s genotype would be e+/e+ B/b+ for males and S/s+(golden) Ig+/ig+(none cream but with one copy of it)..
gold Females genotype would be e+/e+ B/-(hens can only have one copy of barring) s+/(hens can only have one copy of the S locus and they will get their s+ from dad)

be in the look out for Rich colored shoulders males(Culling the ones with too rich of red shoulders, and keeping the ones with less red shoulders) AND gold females with pale salmon breast. so you would have to hatch quite a few of them.


Golden Crele male(with one copy of the barring gene) but with red enhanced shoulders


golden crele male with less red enhaced shoulders(keepers)


For females be in the look out for pale breasted hens(Henk crele hen, no cream)





if y'all dont believe me P.M Henk and ask them about his Crele Dutch bantams and their "Wild" genetic nature

 

[Firefly1v]

Glad to find this thread. Can't wait to learn more...

 

[bargain]

These are the original quad I started from :

Out of this grouping grew 2 pairs of cream legbars. Unfortunately one pair died in the Southern Heat wave where indexed heat was over 115, even with sprinklers and cooler system so down to one pair.

And the first hatchings were as I expected, looking very much familiar Here are several of them .....One pullet is nearly at POL, looking very much like mother:



Now the mystery unfolds. I still get what I call clearly defined cream legbars as above but now are getting much much lighter ones as seen below:

here's one of the lighter ones



So what would you do with this? I realized this was a possibility, but until it occurred I'm going what???? especially after getting "regular" ones. And if any one is getting these kind of colors, are they still sex linked by diffuseness of the marking. The majority of my light ones that are still babies appear to be female? But I don't know. Any advice, greatly appreciated!

 

[lonnyandrinda]

These are what are being referred to as a white sport Cream Legbar. We are getting them because of something in the genetics of the GFF birds. No one is quite sure why or how to breed it out. Not everyone is getting them though. If you don't want the white gene in your flock you may ask around in a year or two and source some new stock from someone who has never hatched whites. Some people really like them and even want them accepted as their own variety- at least one person is running a whole flock of them. I am hearing that they are sexable just as the regular kind- it is just a little more difficult. You have to watch for the stripe on the back as well as the sharply defined V on the head. I don't have any experience with them but I would guess you got all females! How many did you hatch to get this many whites? Was it the whole batch?? That would be VERY unusual!

Rinda

 

[bargain]

Well, I will have to sit with pen and pencil to get a percentage. at first only traditional and then the cream color popped in but intermittently with the traditional ones still coming along. Of the creamy colored, looks like all are female? Time will tell the cream ones are still so young. I'm hoping to do an egg swap with an individual after he finishes his first hatch to see what he might be getting. Was the individual who assembled the light ones getting male roos as well? Thanks for the info!

I just wonderful if the cream color is "female" carried or "male" carried or if it is sex linked in anyway? I really have no trouble with the cream color and they seem of similar temperament as the others. I'll stay tuned and whoever is developing that cream colored flock, can you send me some pics of how they are looking as they grow up???

Thanks, I'll stay tuned.

 

[ChicKat]

Hi bargain,

I think I have also heard that the white ones are producing a nice blue-colored egg. Keep us informed as you find out more. :O)

 

[lonnyandrinda]

RyeRanch has whites, as does Miss Molly. Hey RyeRanch are you the one running a white flock?

The whites are a sport variety. And just as "white rocks" were originally a sport from the barred rock breed they could have a place as a variety of their own.

There is more about the white sports scattered throughout this thread.

 

[nicalandia]

RyeRanch has whites, as does Miss Molly. Hey RyeRanch are you the one running a white flock?

The whites are a sport variety. And just as "white rocks" were originally a sport from the barred rock breed they could have a place as a variety of their own.

There is more about the white sports scattered throughout this thread.

I believe the white ones are "Recessive" white and thats about it. they have all of rest of the genes found on CLB. how and Why they came about it? I just dont know where did the gene came from but its not from the leghorn side of the breed. and why do they accour more on GFF lines? I believe this is due to having a very closed gene pool(few starting breeding stock) and thats why they are starting to pop up/


and if you pay attention you can Sex them at hatch.. Males on the sides, Female on the center



but how? pay attention to the headstripe. males wont have one(very messy head chick down) but Females will have a well defined headstripe

here another look at the same pic


another pic two males on the sides



so sofar I see they carry the Barring gene(homozygous and hemizigous form for females) they carry the e+(wildtype) e allele and are autosexable

 

[nicalandia]

Now the mystery unfolds. I still get what I call clearly defined cream legbars as above but now are getting much much lighter ones as seen below:

here's one of the lighter ones

All of these chicks appear Females to me. well defined headstripe