Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[ChicKat]

Ice at 4 months



sorry I chopped off some of his comb. Todays photo may not show the yellow legs as much due to the length of the grass. He has the gray striped bloomers that GaryDean has mentioned awhile ago...I think his comb is 7 points, white earlobes etc. see for yourself.

Somewhere I have one of him flapping his wings...I was kind of astonished at how big the wings are---because they never look big. I think that may be the tucked up part.

Ahh could his tail be approaching the desired 45-degrees in this photo?


a pict where I didn't cut off his comb follows - I think it is larger since this photo.


A great photographer I sure am not. I leave that to dh. But here's one with the comb in the picture.

 

[ChicKat]

I had sent the top picture to Henk69, who is a genetic expert for those on this forum who aren't familiar with his postings. He is the person who developed that really cool genetic calculator for public use...and I believe has written or coauthored books, besides being a very nice and helpful BYC member.

Here is the reply that I got back. I hope it will once and for all dispel all the fears that somehow we have inferior genetics in the USA.
Henk69 said:


"Well, he is pale enough to be cream. Of course he could be silver from his appearance.
The red shoulders are possible with the cream gene"

And in a lot of ways it is rather unfair to have only a not-so-good picture to go by......We certainly have enough genetics to work toward the ideal IMO...(seems like this keeps popping up, and never goes away) So the coloration of Ice, and a lot of our other roosters is pale enough to be cream. I'm sure that there will be more happening before it is settled once and for all....but I'm going with the fact that what we have here, now in the USA contains the cream gene. (I think GaryDean had also pointed this out some long time back...but there you are -- it keeps bubbling up) ;O)

 

[omaeve]

ALBC's Chicken Assessment for Improving Productivity
They have Breed Comparison chart which I think will be a great help in going
forward with what we want in the Crested Cream Legbar

ALBC is a trademark of American Livestock Breeds Conservancy.
Copyright

1993-2009 American Livestock Breeds Conservancy.
All rights reserved. ALBC Logo Use Policy
The American Livestock Breeds Conservancy
PO Box 477
Pittsboro, North Carolina 27312 USA
Telephone: 919-542-5704
Fax: 919-545-0022
http://www.albc-usa.org/EducationalResources/chickens.html#chicken

Chickens
•ALBC's Chicken Assessment for Improving Productivity
•Learn more about Heritage Chicken and raising Heritage Chickens
•Hatching for Success Presentation
•Chicken Breeder Selection Article from 1929
Chicken Assessment for Improving Productivity
This outline for selecting desirable production traits in chickens was developed
as part of an American Livestock Breeds Conservancy (ALBC) pilot project to
recover breed production characteristics of endangered poultry. These guidelines
are from well-established parameters developed by “old school” poultrymen, as
documented in some of the early to mid-20th century poultry texts. This once
commonplace knowledge and practice has become unknown to most modern
chicken farmers due to the ready availability of chicks that can be purchased
from large hatcheries.
ALBC offers this information for free download in an effort to support small-scale
poultry keeping. Hard copies may be obtained from ALBC at a charge for printing
at ALBC store's poultry page.
•Chapter 1. Selecting for Meat Qualities and Rate of Growth (PDF, 470K)
• Chapter 2. Selecting for Egg Production (PDF, 344K)
• Chapter 3. Ongoing Selection of Breeding Stock (PDF, 291K)
Additional useful forms:
•Toe Punch Chart (PDF, 169K)
•Chick Assessment Form (PDF, 15K)
•Breeder Qualification Form (PDF, 20K)
•Satellite Consignment Agreement (PDF, 35K)
•Breeder/Hatchery Agreement (PDF, 32K)
•ALBC Chicken Breed Comparison Sheet (PDF, 40KB)

 

[KPenley]

Ice at 4 months

Ice is beautiful! And it is really encouraging to have a genetic expert see the potential!

 

[GaryDean26]

How about to start with if someone like GaryDean takes the lead and we all forward information to him to collate into one draft document and then go from there.

It is really important to include sources of reference when ever possible, not to go into the document per se, but so that we can go back to the source of any particular statement at a later date.

That would be fine with me. I have some leads on information in the UK that I have been meaning to track down for a month or two to get informtion on the Cream Legbar History.

I already have four publication by Punnett in the journal of Genetics that are good primary sources.

I would like to track down 1) David Applegarth in the UK 2) David Francis in the UK, 3) The Poultry Club of Great Britain

I also so a reference on to a book called The History of the Blue Egg, that I have never been able to locate. If any one have any information or would like to help track people or information down send me a PM. I will work with everyone tht PM's me to compile information and colaborate on the History of the Legbar.

Yes, I am familiar with the Yahoo group format. I will add files there for everyon to access.

 

[omaeve]

I personally would like to stay here for now BYC is the biggest chicken site and the place we will get the most followers

 

[omaeve]

Is there anyone who would like to take over maintaining the membership/interested party list for this project? My schedule has drastically changed very unexpectedly and I will not have enough time to devote to this for at least a few months. If no one can do it, I'm happy to resume once I'm able.

I will be glad to do membership

 

[GaryDean26]

I personally would like to stay here for now BYC is the biggest chicken site and the place we will get the most followers

The way things are now files that can not be stored in a central location on BYC (i.e. PDF, Word, Excel, etc.) are stored in other location fo peope to access. People that access those files on other sites are still active on BYC forums. It is just one more tool to make things easier for everyone.

 

[redchicken9]

Laingcroft, If you move forward with others that have expressed an interest in the club formation (2), I'll continue with an intent to draft with the talent here the points under (1).

I am guessing there is about 20 people that have expressed themselves on this site. Potentially there is a number watching. For those that are considering stepping into this, please do. Be reassured that everything starts with some randomness.

On point 1, I can continue through chronological each line now numbered from British Poultry Standards. This may fill those with long poultry or show experience with boredom, amusement, embarrassment, or pleasure to see another group begin. I won't know because I don't have that side of things. First I see the standards as the substance to a breed. Those wishing to want to purchase, show, breed, improve their flock or have a club need to know what a cream legbar is. I personally see most of what, if not all of what we need in the UK standards. I also see that only a small percentage of people with this bird know the standard and how to judge the standard and what it means. This includes me. Issues called out thus far egg color, utility, crest in females, coloration of males (cream hackles, coloration of rust, etc), coloration of females (salmon breast) and now tail angle. Do we have a 45 degree angle tail in the US? Maybe not, show me, if you do. Should a standard like this be changed? No, or not likely, but should we know that this may be a pervasive flaw, yes.

If you own an adult male, and then female, please go through the numbered lines. Show your birds in photo or other birds. If you prefer to call out numbers of interest, quote the line and your comment. Some please go through this line by line. I don't think we'll know the issues until this is done. The commitment is 30 days to provide a draft. Certainly an experience person convert the British Poultry Standards to Standard of Perfection. The point here is could a group of vested interested parties of all levels of experience do it. Here is the base. I consider the bottom of the base in terms of knowledge. In this process, we move the base up. We move ourselves up. We can put 30 days into a draft. Others have stepped forward to work on the history, keep a membership, create a logo, and now start a club (all in 3 days!!). None of that has to be formal to be good. We need to keep the doors open to let people find us, their area of best contribution and participation. I place my bets that it will all be formalized soon enough.

OK, for the benefit of an American standard, please post comments on lines 1-15, today we'll move to 16-30.

I think creating a document like ChicKat suggested that shows what the language means and what is flawed is excellent. Walt thanks for the continued support. Others if I forget to comment on your contribution or ideas, I recognize they are there and we will continue to discuss. Thank-you Lonnyandrina for taking up membership. I'll send my information today. ChicKat, Blackbirds13, let's see logos! All continue to show what you got and where you want to participate!

The way I see it there are several things that need to be accomplished and a to-do list would help. Volunteers can then figure out where they want help.

Here's a preliminary that I'm seeing develop:

1. Standard Committee
a. Confirm UK standard as accurate and current
b. Place UK Standard in APA Format
i Americanize/define descriptors like colors, etc.
ii Research and summarize history of breed
c. Draft APA formatted standard and submit to membership for comments period
d. Finalize an APA approvable draft standard incorporating consensus of members
e. Begin standardizing breeding with the goal of APA acceptance based on approved draft standard

2. Club Committee --- can't have a membership without a club
a. Mission statement
b. Bylaws
i officers
ii webmaster and website if there will be one
iii membership
(a) Voting
(b) benefits of membership
(c) newsletter?
(d) dues
-- what will dues support? Registry, website, forums?
c. Club name & logo
i copyright?
d. Legal status of Club if any - Non-profit education?

I can help with club related stuff.

 

[redchicken9]

Omaeve, I think Lonnyandrinda is going to do the membership. Is there anything else you might want to be involved with? I know you have expressed interest from the beginning! BYC is as fine a place as any to get going! We still haven't had any BYC give official feedback on the use of content that may be used at an American Cream Legbar (is this the suggested name? does it need to be American, just asking?) site. File storage on BYC. Are we all good knowing files are elsewhere? GaryDean26 keep us in the loop on where and links.

Just so everyone is clear I am the one to send your information to in order to be on the list of interested parties/contributors/potential club members. Name, address, phone number, e-mail, source and quantity of stock, and any ways you are willing to help. All information will be kept confidential.

ETA: If you already sent your information to Dahlisgrams, I have it.
And if you don't have stock but want to be included in this project send your info anyway!

Rinda

I will be glad to do membership

I personally would like to stay here for now BYC is the biggest chicken site and the place we will get the most followers

The way things are now files that can not be stored in a central location on BYC (i.e. PDF, Word, Excel, etc.) are stored in other location fo peope to access. People that access those files on other sites are still active on BYC forums. It is just one more tool to make things easier for everyone.