Cream Legbars

[KPenley]

4) Defects/faults: crooked combs on the cockerels would be a major fault (straight combs that flop a little a minor fault), Thumb prints on combs would be a fault, non-crested birds a fault, high tail angles would be a fault, undersized birds would be a fault etc...

You're right, I was wrong about thumbprints. They are a defect=fault, not DQ, and carry a 1-2 point deduction.

Here are just a few of the fault deductions and DQs I've heard being discussed here for anyone interested. We will finalize our special disqualification section soon (these are in addition to the general list), but the general list that applies to all breeds can be found in your 2010 American Standard of Perfection pages 30-34.

Twisted Combs carry a 1/2 to 1 point deduction. More or less points than SOP states carries only a 1/2 point deduction.
Rooster combs falling over the horizontal plane are a DQ.
Undersized birds will carry 2 points deduction for the first pound under weight, and 2 points per additional 1/2 pound underweight.
Over sized birds will carry a no cut for first pound, 2 points deducted for each additional pound overweight.

IMPORTANT! since Cream Legbars are a crested variety, non-crested birds will be DQ'd as per 2010 American Standard of Perfection page 33, Crest: (a) Crested Breeds 1. Absence of crest.
Squirrel Tail (over 90 degrees), Wry Tail (is carried to one side), and Split Tail (split down the middle like a hair part) are also DQs. (ASOP, page 33)

 

[HaplessRunner]

1) Crest: The crest grows with the bird. If they have small crests at 16 weeks they will have proportionality small crest at 6 months, 12 months, 18 months etc. Yes, many of the 1st gen GFF birds are none crested or have small crests. It would probably be a good idea to "test mate" roosters to see if they have two copies or one copy of the cresting gene. If they have two copies 100% of their offspring with non-crested birds will have crest. If they only have one copy then they will produce both crested and non-crest offspring with non-crested birds. Some people are making Cream Legbar crosses such as Olive eggs with brown brown egg breeds, or sex-linked crossed with other breeds. If these other breeds are non-crested, then they will work to test you cockerels. You can test you breeding hens too if you cross them with non-crested cockerels. I might also me a good idea to test for the blue egg gene when you test mate too. The lack of the blue egg gene doesn't seem to be a problem in the US, but it is always nice to know what your breeders are passing on so you don't see problems down the road. Since you have 5 pullets that are crested, I would select one or two breeders from the crested group and not breed the non-crested hens (unless they have some really desirable trait that none of the other hens do.)

2) Cockerels size. When you only have 3 to choose from it make choosing really hard, but if I have a big group I usually weigh and measure them all (weight, length of back, length of keel, width at shoulder, width at hips, depth) and eliminate the bottom 50% as potential breeders. Size is one indication of vigor so keeping the birds that are closer to the require weight in the SOP will help produce a good flock. Underweight and Overweight birds are both have higher mortality rates than the rest of the flock so their is a limit on how big you want them to be, but if they are active and foraging, then you know they aren't too big. If they are having a hard time making it up to the 18" high roost or catching the hens, then you may want to go with a smaller boy.

3) Color. People are often attracted to a breed by their color and that is the first thing they want to focus on. We are cautioned over and over again to NOT let color factor more than the shape/type of the bird, the health of the bird, of the egg laying ability of the bird. In the first year of breeding you should be harder on the color of the cockerel than the hens. A quality flock is not created is one year. They are developed over decades of breeding.

4) Defects/faults: crooked combs on the cockerels would be a major fault (straight combs that flop a little a minor fault), Thumb prints on combs would be a fault, non-crested birds a fault, high tail angles would be a fault, undersized birds would be a fault etc... They say to never, never, never breed a hen and a cockerel with the same fault. In my first generation I didn't have enough selection to be able to offset all the faults in my hens with my cockerels, so I just hatch a lot. Every single one of the birds I hatch had faults, but for this falls hatch I have hens now paired with cockerels who don't share any of their same faults. The hens all have faults and the cockerels all have faults, they just don't have the same faults, so these faults will not be locked into the line and I will be able to breed out one fault at a time and work on the next fault the following season with out providing myself a way out of the corner. So...I guess when you are looking at the faults of the cockerels the question should be which hens or hens will I mate him to. If you choose two hens that are small, then you may want the larger cockerel. If you choose two pullets with really large floppy combs, then you may want the cockerel with the smallest comb. If you choose a hen with a high tail angle, then you will need a cockerel with a low tail angle etc.

After you have looked at all the birds and think that you know which ones you want to keep and which you want to breed. watch them for another few days and go one your intuition. If everything you see on paper says cockerel #1, but after a few days you still have a feeling like you should keep #3 even though you aren't sure why, then follow that gut feeling and keep #3 because 9 times out of 10 you are going to be happy you did.

Gary,

Great advice! I am a new breeder and practical advice is always the most appreciated.

I have 3 male cockerels that are now breeding age (hatch date 4/15/13). These are from earlier generation GF stock. One is a really big boy and the lead rooster but he has heavy red bleed through across the shoulders and onto the wings. The second cockerel appears to be a bout a half plus pound smaller has better color with less red. This second guy is very aggressively chasing hens and does not back down from a fight with other roosters. He has not shown any people aggression yet. The third rooster is the smallest but has the best color. About 3-4 weeks ago he got sick and his comb paled but I was able to get him back to health. His comb and other features returned to health but he was set back in his growth.

I have two pullets (hatched 4/7/13) which have yet to start laying. One of which is obviously on the gold side and appears to be getting close to POL. It is unknown whether she carries the cream gene or not. The other appears to have a very good cream color and appears to have very good breeding stock potential. The pictures are shown below.




CCL Roo#1



CCL Roo#2



CCL Roo#3 and Gold Pullet



Gold Pullet



Cream Pullet



Same Cream Pullet




Based on the pictures above, recommendations are appreciated. My intentions are to gradually work toward the standard. Others are welcome to provide their thoughts as well. Any roosters not selected will culled or go to another project I have in mind.

 

[Laingcroft]

Love that last pullet/hen HaplessRunner.

Here are my two new boys from GFF now 6 weeks old. I really love the cream boy.



boys with their SFH clutch mates. Gold boy on top, cream boy on bottom.


cream boy


gold boy

 

[ChicKat]

Love that last pullet/hen HaplessRunner.

Here are my two new boys from GFF now 6 weeks old. I really love the cream boy.



boys with their SFH clutch mates. Gold boy on top, cream boy on bottom.


cream boy


gold boy

Very gorgeous birds, Tru - thanks for posting.

 

[ggladd]

I cant wait to see how many of the 18 legbars i have in the bater hatch and how well they do. I just set em 3 days ago. lol

 

[KPenley]

Ok. I am a complete noob to chickens and i have to ask a really dumb question for all to see how dumb I am. lol. What is the crest? I just put 18 crested creams in the bater 3 days ago. I am seeing the talk about the size of the crest being important so i want to know what to look for in mine when they hatch and grow.

Here is a pic of my girl Chocolate. She is not a good example of coloring, but see that "hairdo" on top of her head? It puffs out just to the sides and behind her comb? That's a crest.

 

[ggladd]

Ahh

Here is a pic of my girl Chocolate. She is not a good example of coloring, but see that "hairdo" on top of her head? It puffs out just to the sides and behind her comb? That's a crest.

. Ahh. I see it. I was thinking that the crest may be a type of comb. Thank you.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Gary,

Great advice! I am a new breeder and practical advice is always the most appreciated.

I have 3 male cockerels that are now breeding age (hatch date 4/15/13). These are from earlier generation GF stock. One is a really big boy and the lead rooster but he has heavy red bleed through across the shoulders and onto the wings. The second cockerel appears to be a bout a half plus pound smaller has better color with less red. This second guy is very aggressively chasing hens and does not back down from a fight with other roosters. He has not shown any people aggression yet. The third rooster is the smallest but has the best color. About 3-4 weeks ago he got sick and his comb paled but I was able to get him back to health. His comb and other features returned to health but he was set back in his growth.

I have two pullets (hatched 4/7/13) which have yet to start laying. One of which is obviously on the gold side and appears to be getting close to POL. It is unknown whether she carries the cream gene or not. The other appears to have a very good cream color and appears to have very good breeding stock potential. The pictures are shown below.




CCL Roo#1



CCL Roo#2



CCL Roo#3 and Gold Pullet



Gold Pullet



Cream Pullet



Same Cream Pullet




Based on the pictures above, recommendations are appreciated. My intentions are to gradually work toward the standard. Others are welcome to provide their thoughts as well. Any roosters not selected will culled or go to another project I have in mind.

I really like the type on Roo #1. Not so thrilled with #2. #3 is too young to tell much yet. If it was just between 1 and 2, I would keep 1 and breed him to your true cream girl and work towards better coloring from there. I'm interested to hear the other opinions though.

 

[CibolaChooks]

Gary,

Great advice! I am a new breeder and practical advice is always the most appreciated.


CCL Roo#1



CCL Roo#2



CCL Roo#3 and Gold Pullet



Gold Pullet



Cream Pullet



Same Cream Pullet




Based on the pictures above, recommendations are appreciated. My intentions are to gradually work toward the standard. Others are welcome to provide their thoughts as well. Any roosters not selected will culled or go to another project I have in mind.

i like the tail angle of 1 but i think he has that red that people talk about instead of chestnut. Also number 2 has more of correct chestnut color and less color in his primaries and his saddle hackles definitely look like a better color than 1. I think that 1 will give you the best form but 2 will give you the best color and possibly form. 3 might have had a bad picture day but his body angle and comb wouldn't be picked over the other two but he might have the best color to get some cream males. He also has the lowest tail angle. Also I'm not sure but does 1 have seven points, does that lil bump sticking up count as a point right in front of the first noticeable point. It looks like 2 has 6 points. I would probably go with number 2 especially if his body type is about the same as 1. Its hard to catch them in pics i know. But if you cage them next to each other and the body type is close to the same as 1 i personally would defiantly go with 2

For the hens i really like your cream one. But I'm thinking the hens that carry cream look like the one you call gold. She has allot of real gold in her head crest and in the neck around the head. but I'm thinking the majority of her neck color is cream. This one will probably give you cream offspring. IMO. but as a side note she will pass that bent wavy comb on too.

 

[CibolaChooks]

You're right, I was wrong about thumbprints. They are a defect=fault, not DQ, and carry a 1-2 point deduction.

Here are just a few of the fault deductions and DQs I've heard being discussed here for anyone interested. We will finalize our special disqualification section soon (these are in addition to the general list), but the general list that applies to all breeds can be found in your 2010 American Standard of Perfection pages 30-34.

Twisted Combs carry a 1/2 to 1 point deduction. More or less points than SOP states carries only a 1/2 point deduction.
Rooster combs falling over the horizontal plane are a DQ.
Undersized birds will carry 2 points deduction for the first pound under weight, and 2 points per additional 1/2 pound underweight.
Over sized birds will carry a no cut for first pound, 2 points deducted for each additional pound overweight.

IMPORTANT! since Cream Legbars are a crested variety, non-crested birds will be DQ'd as per 2010 American Standard of Perfection page 33, Crest: (a) Crested Breeds 1. Absence of crest.
Squirrel Tail (over 90 degrees), Wry Tail (is carried to one side), and Split Tail (split down the middle like a hair part) are also DQs. (ASOP, page 33)

thank you for this.