Cream Legbars

[BuffyBugSlayer]

That is certainly something I have noticed Chickat, all the changes they go through. Sometimes it seems that they literally change overnight. It will be interesting to see how they turn out. I really have so much to learn but I feel like each day I get a little better understanding of things. Who knows, someday, I might actually know what I am doing!

That little coop that they are in is my young chicken coop. It is works really well for the babies. They love having a place to go underneath and they love when I open the door that contains the pop door so they can swing from it. I have found my youngsters to be quite curious and not flighty. I did handle them quite a bit and they aren't lap chickens like my orpingtons but their curiosity seems to get the better of them and they love to interact with me. A nice personality is important to me in a chicken!

 

[Flaming Chicken]

Is anyone interested in commenting on my 5 week old chicks? I've posted 2 pics of each (2 pullets and 1 cockerel). I am just curious how they are developing and how their coloration compares?

pullet 1



Pullet 2 (on left side of 2nd pic)



cockerel




Thanks!

Hi Buffy,

Your cockerel has potential. He has a nice upright comb and nice crest and beautiful feet.. Over the next 3 weeks or so you will be able to see if he grow out gold or cream on his hackles and saddle. I agree that your pullets both have dark heads and crest. I am aiming for light heads and crests in my girls. Pullet one looks like her hackles will be gold and Pullet 2 may be cream under the dark on her neck.

I'm curious, did you get them locally in Montana or were they shipped to you?

 

[ChicKat]

hi Buffy,
I see what you mean about swinging on the door. I need a door that mine can swing from....LOL. someone actually invented a chicken swing..it's pretty cool. - I'm looking at my coops/runs - and thinking -- this is pretty bleak. so now I am thinking about how to improve their environment - since I don't free-range them any more......When they did free-range they had a circuit that they did... I just think that this location is too close to the wilderness.... poor critters... But at least they are live critters.

 

[ChicKat]

whoops double post.

 

[BuffyBugSlayer]

Thanks blackbirds and flaming chicken. The pullets do seem dark to me too. I have two more that are just a couple of weeks old now and one of the pullets is showing some silverly looking barring in her wings. More so than the other three so it will be interesting to see how she develops.

I have also noticed that pullet 1 has a more distinctive crest but shows more gold than pullet 2. They both have rusty looking salmon coloring on their breasts. It looks lighter to me in person than in these pics though.

I think the little cockerel is nice looking so far. He is developing some color on his chest and is just starting to show some hints on his shoulders as well. We shall see when they all grow up!

I got the chicks locally. Greenfire does not ship to Montana or I would have purchased from them most likely. I was told from the person I purchased from that his stock came from California and they originally came from Greenfire. The person I purchased from was breeding a trio and they were decent looking birds (from my entirely newbie perspective). They looked like the majority of birds I have seen from Greenfire and not the newer Rees line.

 

[ChicKat]

Thanks blackbirds and flaming chicken. The pullets do seem dark to me too. I have two more that are just a couple of weeks old now and one of the pullets is showing some silverly looking barring in her wings. More so than the other three so it will be interesting to see how she develops.

I have also noticed that pullet 1 has a more distinctive crest but shows more gold than pullet 2. They both have rusty looking salmon coloring on their breasts. It looks lighter to me in person than in these pics though.

I think the little cockerel is nice looking so far. He is developing some color on his chest and is just starting to show some hints on his shoulders as well. We shall see when they all grow up!

I got the chicks locally. Greenfire does not ship to Montana or I would have purchased from them most likely. I was told from the person I purchased from that his stock came from California and they originally came from Greenfire. The person I purchased from was breeding a trio and they were decent looking birds (from my entirely newbie perspective). They looked like the majority of birds I have seen from Greenfire and not the newer Rees line.

Hi Buffy -
Did you mean to say your pullet had silvery-barring on the neck hackles?? In general in CL females -you wouldn't want silvery-looking in the wings. Now of course, you will have to supply us with a picture of the wing.

Also want to add, that the standard of perfection does allow for some chestnut on certain parts of the male...AND there are some of us raising CLs that definitely prefer to have some chestnut - especially on the wing.


The above image is from Henk69's chicken calculator - which is a brilliant piece of software.... It shows the image results of the correct Cream Legbar according to genetic configuration.

below is the genetic image generated by a silver-configuration genetically, and that isn't correct for a Cream Legbar. The cream gene works on a gold base....so the Cream Legbar has gold genetics on the S-Locus; if Silver were to be there -- Silver is dominant over gold...so it wouldn't be the effects of the cream gene that one would see.



Since Cream doesn't photograph, so it seems, all the photos of silver-looking birds have IMO swung the pendulum to the extreme of light birds. Recently heard from someone in the UK that stated some folks over there are seeming to ignore the 'allowed' parts of the SOP -- or is it "permissable" (I think that their wording is "allowed" and the USA's is permissible).

I have a cockerel that I actually rehomed because of his comb -- but now have him back because of his desposition - he is a super-light color--- He has so many minuses


squirrel tail, over-sized comb and wattles, worst fault - he is mean as sin.... His weight in May, when he was 2-years old, was over 6 1/2 pounds...Too bad about his looks and disposition. He was from my very first Cream Legbar hatch. My point is this though, as a youngster, I think he had a fairly pinkish or pale, pale, pale salmon-white breast (for a week or so)...so I don't think that a person should discard a good rooster based on baby-plumage Cream Legbars go through a few color changes in their lives. JMO.

Were it not for his chestnut shoulders..he would look too close to the silver in the illustration above for my taste..and I would never keep a rooster any lighter than this in my flock. Each has their own preference. some people 'the lighter the better' -- LOL -

However, (this from a person in the UK) - when the SOP says 'allowed' - some over there interpret it to mean that it is undesirable, perhaps that is what the UK SOP writers intended...but I have heard that in the UK it is difficult to have a salmon breast from some of their breeding....they are more milky-pink or light peachy-white. They can solve this by having a pen where they breed males and a different pen where they breed females. Along with some old timers -- I think that dual mating would be an undesirable trait for a breed. For others it is anything that it takes to win in a show - so dual mating is something that they embrace and encourage. Interesting huh? There are as many different chicken philosophies as there are chicken owners.

Later the same daY:
Found a photo of this same cockerel as a little one:

I think that his breast had a rosy-tinge. His sister had a lot of white flecks---I think this was after her wing was torn off though!

 

[BuffyBugSlayer]

Hi Chickat. The pullet has what I think looks like silvery wings. I will post a pic and see if it shows what I mean. I could be just describing it incorrectly or she could be a a pullet with what sounds like bad coloring!

I appreciate the pictures you posted. Everything helps me understand things a little more. I fully admit that I am work in progress but figured there is no better way to learn than to put it out there. So all of this is good for me to think about and look at.

I have no intention of getting rid of any of the cream legbars I have right now. Especially since they are so young and I will probably keep them even if they are horrible representations of the breed as adults

because I am a chicken pet owner still and just starting to dip my toes into the chicken breeding world.

I do understand that males can and do have some coloring so I am not too worried. I have no idea what any of them are going to look like but I decided that if I take notes and pictures of their development and hear what others think it will probably help me in the future. At least it can't hurt. I find it fun and interesting either way.

Does "squirrel tail" refer to the curling of the tail feathers or the angle of the tail feathers? I have seen the term but I am not entirely sure that I understand what it means.

So here is a pic of the little pullet with the "silver":

And here is a pic of the other one without the "silver":

I don't know if that first pic is good enough to see what I am talking about or I could just be making things up in my head!

 

[chicken pickin]

Hi Chickat. The pullet has what I think looks like silvery wings. I will post a pic and see if it shows what I mean. I could be just describing it incorrectly or she could be a a pullet with what sounds like bad coloring!

I appreciate the pictures you posted. Everything helps me understand things a little more. I fully admit that I am work in progress but figured there is no better way to learn than to put it out there. So all of this is good for me to think about and look at.

I have no intention of getting rid of any of the cream legbars I have right now. Especially since they are so young and I will probably keep them even if they are horrible representations of the breed as adults

because I am a chicken pet owner still and just starting to dip my toes into the chicken breeding world.

I do understand that males can and do have some coloring so I am not too worried. I have no idea what any of them are going to look like but I decided that if I take notes and pictures of their development and hear what others think it will probably help me in the future. At least it can't hurt. I find it fun and interesting either way.

Does "squirrel tail" refer to the curling of the tail feathers or the angle of the tail feathers? I have seen the term but I am not entirely sure that I understand what it means.

So here is a pic of the little pullet with the "silver":

And here is a pic of the other one without the "silver":

I don't know if that first pic is good enough to see what I am talking about or I could just be making things up in my head!

I don't think I would describe that as silver, it is a cooler tone more gray than brown, not silver. Do you have more pics of them, maybe side by side and also top views?

Keep posting updates of them as they grow


edited to add - squirrel tail is referring to the angle of the tail when it is at a higher angle than standard calls for. Like straight up at 90 degrees or more. I believe that trait is only acceptable in breed standards for the Japanese Bantams.

 

[KPenley]

I don't think I would describe that as silver, it is a cooler tone more gray than brown, not silver. Do you have more pics of them, maybe side by side and also top views?

Keep posting updates of them as they grow


edited to add - squirrel tail is referring to the angle of the tail when it is at a higher angle than standard calls for. Like straight up at 90 degrees or more. I believe that trait is only acceptable in breed standards for the Japanese Bantams.

x2 babies feathers change like three times so it's way to early to be judging final coloring.

Squirrel tail

 

[blackbirds13]

Hi Chickat. The pullet has what I think looks like silvery wings. I will post a pic and see if it shows what I mean. I could be just describing it incorrectly or she could be a a pullet with what sounds like bad coloring!

I appreciate the pictures you posted. Everything helps me understand things a little more. I fully admit that I am work in progress but figured there is no better way to learn than to put it out there. So all of this is good for me to think about and look at.

I have no intention of getting rid of any of the cream legbars I have right now. Especially since they are so young and I will probably keep them even if they are horrible representations of the breed as adults

because I am a chicken pet owner still and just starting to dip my toes into the chicken breeding world.

I do understand that males can and do have some coloring so I am not too worried. I have no idea what any of them are going to look like but I decided that if I take notes and pictures of their development and hear what others think it will probably help me in the future. At least it can't hurt. I find it fun and interesting either way.

Does "squirrel tail" refer to the curling of the tail feathers or the angle of the tail feathers? I have seen the term but I am not entirely sure that I understand what it means.

So here is a pic of the little pullet with the "silver":

And here is a pic of the other one without the "silver":

I don't know if that first pic is good enough to see what I am talking about or I could just be making things up in my head!

YOur first girl is probably just evidencing cream in her plumage more so than the second girl. They both look like they may grow out well but it is way too early to make some judgments on your birds. There are different types of melanin (coloring) in different parts of the body. There are terms like Pheomelanin, Eumelanin, Autosomal...etc that can be used to describe the coloring on these birds. The chick down on the female can a lot of time be a precursor of if the girl will be cream or gold.
In order to breed pure and cream both birds need to have 2 copies of the cream gene (denoted at ig/ig). With just one copy it will take a lot of breeding to get to cream but it is possible. With no cream gene in either bird it is impossible to do so. A lot of folks have gotten to cream with birds that have single genes for cream but it requires keeping and breeding only the best representations of the breed.

No one should cull or keep birds based on another persons opinion, especially with Cream Legbars as there is so much that is not known and has not bee investigated. ChicKat and I disagree very much in this area of color and always have but such is life. I do not disagree that the colorful gold birds are attractive, they are just not correct for the SOP and require a lot of work going forward and serious culling. Nowadays it is so much easier to get what some us term 'correct for cream' colored birds. There is also a contingent that prefers more color and I believe they are working on taking that version to the APA also... but not sure on this.

Unfortunately, there is such as thing as too much color on the birds if you are going to go for a cream colored Cream Legbar, especially the roosters. Reason? It affects the female offspring negatively. For some of us it is not what we 'like' that we are breeding towards but what the SOP and the genetics demand.

The current thought is that the pigment on the shoulders may impact the tone of coloring on the female plumage (back and body and area around the neck and hackle) in a negative fashion making it too warm. Similar to your second girl. It may indicate an impaction on the female salmon breast. It is not the same genetic coloring of the saddle and the hackle.

This color debate is continuous and one that some of us have moved past and just accepted a version of cream that is consistent. In order to breed correct females and males certain likes and wants have to just bend to the genetic make up of the bird and the need to develop a breed that will breed forward with consistency.


The SOP calls for a slatey gray down in males and the down of females should be cooler in tone than warmer. The hackle needs to develop into a Barred Cream so to the male and the wing bay of the boy should be cream and gray barred only with no excess color. Excess color is 'allowed', in my mind that means it should not dominate, the shoulder, back and a bit in the crest. Too much color in the shoulders can create warmer tones in the females around the head and neck area of the outer parts of the hackle.

If you intend to keep and grow out a lot of you birds you will have the opportunity to see how they develop and learn the intricacies of the birds. I sold out very little in my first couple years and just watched how they developed.


Good luck, it is a wonderful breed of chicken.