Cream Legbars

[chicken pickin]

Let's see...chicken village is a pretty good description of what we do too

but I cull heavily in the Fall. I have a multipurpose 4 x 8 rooster pen next door to his hens' 8x12 pen. They are not really big enough for breeding yet, but he will get to visit once or twice a week during show season. There are plans to build a second set of these. I have another 8x12 pen for a hen house, and a 6x6 pen for roosters. I also have removable panels that create a run for the boys, but is currently bring used as freezer camp. Then there is the kids' bantam pen too...all in all there are only 24 birds and 5 are marked for butchering. We also have various small coops for brooding, growing out, etc.

I hope you figure out a system that works for you!

I have been debating on doing a rooster pen for the off breeding times. I currently keep one male in each coop as permanent occupants with their hens. I see so many others that have males housed separate and only put them with the hens when breeding which give the hens the much needed breaks they deserve. Do those of you that do it this way like it? Do the hens seem to be stressed with the males coming and going? Or is it over all a better living situation?

I think This Spring I may build a few breeder pens also for single matings.

 

[KPenley]

I've always kept spare roosters separately, but the rooster pen next to the hens is new for me. I was finding that with my small numbers the hens were getting worked over a bit too much which really required serious planning around show times to get back into condition. I also noticed how calm the hen house always was and figured that the girls could use a break other than just the summer. I think it was Curtis or Elissa, maybe Kathy??? Who mentioned that some show breeders did the visiting rooster thing, and I figured it was worth a try!

The cool thing about a 4x8 pen is that you can always put a hen in for a single pairing or just have the rooster visit all the hens then cage individual hens for egg collection. Of course I know who lays what eggs based on shape and color, so that's not really necessary for me.

I'll let you know this summer if it's been a better set up than the breeding group housing. Best wishes!

 

[ChicKat]

Protection from predation is my first priority..... I have lost a lot of good, potentially good, and beloved chickens to predators - the worst of which being raccoons. I have to have covered runs... In the runs, I have either little coops, or rabbit hutches or in one case even a pet carrier that the three cockerels sleep on top of....

Like KPenley - I know who is the hen that I am taking eggs from to put in the incubator and I only put one rooster with a group of hens. I keep them in "families" if they aren't grow outs. I'm extremely fortunate that my rooster is really gentle with the hens. (He may look askance at me -- and he may always position himself between me and the hens -- but I haven't had any damage to hens's backs (knock on wood)). I pretty much leave the rooster in all the time, and don't take him out.

I got some of those 10x6 chain link panels -- (something like 8 for $50) from a friend - and that is the core of my set up right now. Inside the pens is a plastic chicken house or a wooden one -- where they have free access. -- It is the kind of situation where I have daily poop scoop duty on the pull out trays and they have Sweet PDZ on them so it is a bit like cleaning up kitty littler -- and it all goes into my spiffy compost pile.

I also have one of those cattle panel hoop coops that I use for quarantine, etc. It is 8x8 - My chain links are 3 10x10 and 1 10x20 Once you get the first set built - you can use existing walls. I have a 10x20 area that adjoins doors of the 3 10x10 so that any pen could be open to the extra 200 sq ft - giving any pen 300sq ft of floor space. That one doesn't have any cover over -- so they can never be there over night --and a bird of prey could cause me a problem. IF I get just 5-more panels I could adjoin the doors of all my little pens excpet the hoop coop - and give them more fenced room and with the set up I already have get 300 more sq ft. - Sometimes these are for sale on Craig's list for reasonable...they can be bought at tractor supply....for unreasonable..but there you go. ;O) And OH no, that isn't enough - I have two of the original Eglu Pods... I find them really convenient for a pair or trio, and for a quarantine, broody -- you name it -- and I feel they are very safe too....

If I have a hen I for sure want to set eggs from I will put in a decoy (at least one other hen) to share the rooster attention...but I have a fairly small head count at any one time...and have a goal to keep just a couple -2- breeding pairs and trios. For the first time I am line breeding -- so you can keep a fairly small population -- I'm incubating some father-daughter eggs right now. When my little grow out boys are big enough, I will take the best one and do a grandmother-grandson pairing..

Maybe I'm crazy -- but I think that my chickens have family bonds -- a bit like people and I hate to break up the family.

I was also thinking today -- (and I haven't done this much)-- I have 3 absolutely beautiful Isbar cockerels -- they are almost carbon copies of each other -- they are splash with bright red combs and wattles...they look like a Christmas card to me with that color of red.... One of them got 3rd place in the backyard show at the poultry event last Sat. that I took chickens to. They are less - mature - although the identical age, than the one I will be using from the same hatch for my breeding rooster. I think a rooster raised with a pullet does better than a rooster raised with a bunch of other roosters. On the other hand...the outstanding individual from that group of roosters raised together would be particularly outstanding - but the one who had no other rooster competition for anything -- I don't know -- just a random thought -- -and all my 'best' roosters were raised with a female or two...and no competition in the world. I wonder if there is anything to it.

Chicken math hits -- but it may force us to cull hard. Which in the end - as tough as it is when we get attached to them - is a big requirement for a better flock.

It's a good thing that I have a population top limit -- I would wish to keep them all.............. I don't count the grow-outs, but as they get to be big juveniles - either they have to go, or someone else has to go -- I said 16 chickens was my target -- and I'm at 20 now with 5-grow outs and 7 in the incubator... I have, like KP - ear marked 5 to go -- The three Isbars I hope I can find a good buyer for.

 

[chicken pickin]

I think the same way as you @ChicKat , I think of them as little chicken families that form bonds. Im trying to change my way of thinking slightly so I am able to better breed. It may be necessary to change up living situations and definitely necessary to cull. Im getting better, I don't name them any more so that's a start.

I have roughly a 40 chicken limit, given the coop space I have. I currently have 34 chickens but would like to cull 3-4 cockerels and maybe come spring rehome a few Marans hens. That will help bring my numbers down and give me room to wiggle if I want to hold on to more legbars.

 

[BuffyBugSlayer]

Thanks all, for your input. It has been a bit of a challenge going from "pet" chicken mindset to breeding chickens. I may not be successful because killing my "pets" is nearly impossible for me to do at this point. I have found that the more chickens I have the less I am bonding with individuals so as that occurs naturally I may be able to make the transition. I gave away all of cockerels from last year (not legbars) fairly easily so that may be an option for me as well.

I also struggle with the family groups, because I have noticed it as well. In fact last night I was thinking about how I am going to separate the girls from each other. I know people scoff..but that is just the kind of person I am!

Because we have so much winter it is necessary for me to provide fairly substantial winter housing. I find when it is cold and snowy they spend most of their time indoors. My predator situation isn't as bad as some because we don't have raccoons. I also have a dog boarding facility and the constant presence of dogs keeps the coyotes and foxes as bay during the day but I must lock them up at night.

My husband, although supportive, is tired of helping me build chicken houses! So seeing all of the other people's options is helpful and also gives me insight into what to expect.

 

[Flaming Chicken]

I have to say it was interesting watching my CL cockerels tonight. After dark I went out and needed to handle some of my CL hens and pullets to change bands. In both coops I took a hen/pullet off the roost to handle them of course they yelled at me, when I set them down the cockerel in each coop jumped down off the roost and stood in front of the hen to guard her, but neither showed aggression toward me. They seemed to simply be guarding their hen.

I hope they both continue to have a no worry attitude toward me. Currently they know Im there but don't seem to be bothered by my presence and they step out of my way when Im in the chicken yard and they go about their own business.

My third CL who I have been debating on keeping might very well be the opposite, he seems anxious often and he watches me so Im not sure how long he will stay around here. Hes a nice looking boy too, we will see.

I've had 3 aggressive CL cockerels that were culled. The others are protective of the hens without challenging.

 

[ChicKat]

Thanks all, for your input. It has been a bit of a challenge going from "pet" chicken mindset to breeding chickens. I may not be successful because killing my "pets" is nearly impossible for me to do at this point. I have found that the more chickens I have the less I am bonding with individuals so as that occurs naturally I may be able to make the transition. I gave away all of cockerels from last year (not legbars) fairly easily so that may be an option for me as well.

I also struggle with the family groups, because I have noticed it as well. In fact last night I was thinking about how I am going to separate the girls from each other. I know people scoff..but that is just the kind of person I am!

Because we have so much winter it is necessary for me to provide fairly substantial winter housing. I find when it is cold and snowy they spend most of their time indoors. My predator situation isn't as bad as some because we don't have raccoons. I also have a dog boarding facility and the constant presence of dogs keeps the coyotes and foxes as bay during the day but I must lock them up at night.

My husband, although supportive, is tired of helping me build chicken houses! So seeing all of the other people's options is helpful and also gives me insight into what to expect.

Just like you -- I worry about the hatchlings being broken apart. I kind of have a rule to only sell pullets in 2-or more groups -- So at least out in the new environment they will have each other.

Noticed also that the more chickens you have -- the less you do bond with individuals. I kind of miss the olden days..... On the other hand there are people to whom their chickens are just commodities - and I feel as sorry for them for what they are missing out on - as they feel we are silly and call us 'chicken moms' -- okay to each their own. Then the other extreme, there is a documentary about chickens I have seen - where the lady takes her silky rooster in the swimming pool with her - on his own little floatation device, in her car with her...as a house pet -- wearing diapers.... that is too far along the continuum for me.

Regarding breeding and housing -- It is so interesting when people say you must hatch hundreds or thousands of chickens to get the one good one. And that is all well and good--- but I think with rare breeds like ours-- you really don't take that route.....I also think that in the olden days when they just had a pen of chickens they were taking the shot-gun approach so - yeah you needed a lot of chickens to get that random thing that you are seeking. Instead when we focus on one thing at a time - - we pair individuals that will get us closer to that goal, with limited chickens to begin with -- And when we KNOW the lineage - rather than just randomly selecting from a pen - the way they once managed chickens -- you progress faster to your goal.

I started at the top and focused on crest and comb. Never have I hatched one that is uncrested, and I was surprised to find that some are/were still experiencing that. I guess it could pop up (in mine) -- since crest is not totally dominant it is incomplete dominant. Most dominant genes are all or nothing, incomplete could express in varying degrees. My main rooster has a definite but small crest, and I crossed him with an uncrested Isbar -- hence 'Icecream Bars' -- the male has the tiniest little crest - right now maybe just one or two feathers...but that gene had to come from dad, the female from that x has a more normal Legbar crest - but smaller. So in this case my rooster is 2 for 2. Not enough to prove that he carries two cresting genes, but certainly enough when added to looking at most Legbars to assure that the same genetics for crest expresses differently in the male and the female (as the genetics for straight comb also express differently in the different sexes)----

I wish I could snag a diagram of the possible crosses with just two or three birds -- The one I am looking at now shows one rooster and two females all unrelated. The the offspring are continually bred back to the same rooster....After 3 generations, a new hen (unrelated) is introduced and bred to the third generation rooster from the initial three. Original breeding birds, only 1` rooster and two unrelated females. Now, what happens to the ones hatched from these pairs and how many there are, how many are kept etc. is part of the complexity---but in this diagram there are only a total of 12 chickens by the time 3rd generation rolls around. Then a new hen is added (unrelated) and bred with a 3rd generation rooster and those offspring ar bred back to the third generation rooster for two generations adding only 4 more birds to the total and now 6 generations away from the original. (I bet I made that just as clear as mud.) -- I will see if I can find it illustrated on the internet and come back with a link. Picture is worth a thousand words.

This isn't the exact one I described, but does show the principal:

Here's a link to the internet posting on this
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/ppp/ppp6.html

ETA -- not to torture it all too much...LOL -- but this enumerates only 16 chickens - and the added "new line" chicken that makes it 17. It is a more strategic approach -- again, how many were hatched with each generation and what became of the ones not retained -- a different story. ;O)

 

[puss58]

Hi puss58.

As others have mentioned, he looks neurological to me too. But it is smart to closely look at the feet for both tanglements or foreign bodies in the pads or bumblefoot. The neuro could be blindness or difficulty seeing (it seems you have ruled this out, but I would check the size of his pupils and make sure they are the same size). The differentials for causes of neurological disease include: viral (ie Mareks), encephalitis caused by bacteria (I would expect him to be unthrifty and act sick in other ways), trauma, congenital (something he was born with that may cause problems such as increasing/ed csf pressure in the brain from bad anatomy), or nutritional deficiencies (such as low Thiamine levels), or toxin exposure.

Not much you can do in any case but to make sure he is eating ok and not bullied. If her were mine, I would switch to a new bag of food (different lot number) if its a quality brand, or a different brand all together and if you have him on medicated chick feed I would remove that since the active ingredient is a Thiamine analog and he could in theory get deficient in Thiamine if that was his sole feed. Thiamine deficiencies can cause hyper extension (where certain muscles seem spastic, especially those muscles that counter gravity)--usually seen as a stargazing or a twisting of the neck over the back but can be generalized or seen in other muscles groups if it is minor.

I do hope you keep us posted on his progress.

Thanks dretd! I did inspect his feet closely. Nothing tangled, feet are clean and no bumblefoot. I will check his eyes more closely. He seems healthy except for the funny walk. They're all on nonmedicated starter/grower, with oyster shell on the side for the girls. I posted here about this because I didn't know if there was a possibility that it might be some sort of recessive legbar trait.
I'll keep you updated.
Regards,
Carol

 

[BuffyBugSlayer]

Quote: This is really helpful to me. I am still sorting all of this out and I have the winter to get a plan going. I tend to focus on color too much, I think. I am trying to focus on "the building" and color keeps distracting me

.

I know that for me personally I can't go the tons of chickens route for multiple reasons. My goal is to start small this spring and see where it takes me.

 

[jerryse]

Hatched late April.

My trio I purchased in early July . Something to work with . They have laid but taking a break due to short days .