Cream Legbars

[KPenley]

One of the advantages of CLs is that they are autosexing (at hatch time) -- 

ETA - it may be very much a 'to each his own' approach.  Some strains do have a different approach, but to have to wait 4-5 days would not be my choice in autosexing. 

X2 quick reminder to anyone new, in males the headspot should sort of travel down over the body creating a washed out blurry pattern. So clear headspot or not, there should be a big difference between male and female chicks as soon as they are dried (if not before ). If that's not what you are seeing in your chicks, mark the clearest marked chicks for breeding, and over the next few generations of careful selection the autosexing should become clearer and clearer until it is ideal again.

I'm catching up on the last 300 posts or so. Welcome to all new Cream Legbar Fanciers! Keep the chicks pics coming please! I'm not hatching right now since we're preparing our home to sell, but I am totally missing those cute little fluffy chicks. Also, 2016 is the year of SHAPE improvement. What shape issues are you working on this year?

 

[duluthralphie]

One of the advantages of CLs is that they are autosexing (at hatch time) --

ETA - it may be very much a 'to each his own' approach. Some strains do have a different approach, but to have to wait 4-5 days would not be my choice in autosexing.

The problem is not all chicks autosex at hatch. I get some "Pats" that could go either way. A female with a larger white spot. I still know it is a female but those I sell to that are only vaguely aware of the autosexing and what to look for read online about the spot on the head of males and think that is an absolute.

IMHO it is not. I sold 8 girls yesterday and I gave her one that had maybe 4 yellow fluff feathers on her head and she went nuts thinking I was trying to rip her off. I simply took it back. BUT there is no doubt in my mind she is a girl. It takes time to look and learn all the indicators on some of the chicks.

I find it hard to believe no one else has had "Pats" and not had to wait to see some feathers to be sure.

I remember reading some where not too long ago some people feel the autosexing in CLB's might be lessoning and in the future not even be there. ( I have no idea how many generations "in the future" is.

 

[duluthralphie]

X2 quick reminder to anyone new, in males the headspot should sort of travel down over the body creating a washed out blurry pattern. So clear headspot or not, there should be a big difference between male and female chicks as soon as they are dried (if not before

). If that's not what you are seeing in your chicks, mark the clearest marked chicks for breeding, and over the next few generations of careful selection the autosexing should become clearer and clearer until it is ideal again.

I'm catching up on the last 300 posts or so. Welcome to all new Cream Legbar Fanciers! Keep the chicks pics coming please! I'm not hatching right now since we're preparing our home to sell, but I am totally missing those cute little fluffy chicks. Also, 2016 is the year of SHAPE improvement. What shape issues are you working on this year?

I agree with you, on not breeding the "non-conformist" in regards to autosexing. However, I think final looks, tail position, toes, legs is more important than the autosexing. It would be nice to have both, but if I have to choose.....

 

[KPenley]

I agree with you, on not breeding the "non-conformist" in regards to autosexing. However, I think final looks, tail position, toes, legs is more important than the autosexing. It would be nice to have both, but if I have to choose.....

I hear you in regards to showing birds, but as an advocate for preserving the Cream Legbar as a breed, autosexing must be encouraged to propitiate the breed. I do not hatch chicks that I can't tell apart at hatch. As an encouragement, the only way autosexing will disappear is if the hard to tell birds are bred, and bred again for generations. Cull early, cull hard, and there will be no future date where autosexing disappears. Best wishes with your birds!

 

[ChicKat]

The problem is not all chicks autosex at hatch. I get some "Pats" that could go either way. A female with a larger white spot. I still know it is a female but those I sell to that are only vaguely aware of the autosexing and what to look for read online about the spot on the head of males and think that is an absolute.

IMHO it is not. I sold 8 girls yesterday and I gave her one that had maybe 4 yellow fluff feathers on her head and she went nuts thinking I was trying to rip her off. I simply took it back. BUT there is no doubt in my mind she is a girl. It takes time to look and learn all the indicators on some of the chicks.

I find it hard to believe no one else has had "Pats" and not had to wait to see some feathers to be sure.

I remember reading some where not too long ago some people feel the autosexing in CLB's might be lessoning and in the future not even be there. ( I have no idea how many generations "in the future" is.

Not sure what a Pat is -- but if you go back to RC Punnett -- the chicks are definitely, undoubtedly autosexing. the people between then and now have caused the ambiguity with their ill-advised, albeit well intentioned attempts to improve the breed. IMO....

This is an example of Legbar autosexing from Punnetts day. To my eye - each of the top 3 (males) have headspots, and the females have more distinctive stripes. If they don't look like these chicks, at hatch -- then maybe they are suspect. ;O)

I'll leave y'all to it....as to me it seems kind of unequivocal..... best of luck.

 

[duluthralphie]

I hear you in regards to showing birds, but as an advocate for preserving the Cream Legbar as a breed, autosexing must be encouraged to propitiate the breed. I do not hatch chicks that I can't tell apart at hatch. As an encouragement, the only way autosexing will disappear is if the hard to tell birds are bred, and bred again for generations. Cull early, cull hard, and there will be no future date where autosexing disappears. Best wishes with your birds!

This year I only keep 6 pullets for breeding and the original pair I bought. (I had a trio but the one hen got chomped on by an eagle). The other pullets from last year became EE hens. They are either in my layer flock or sold as EE. I do mark the best looking chicks and those that hatch the easiest fastest for breeding. Put will pull them out of next years breeders if they are not what I want.

The trio I originally bought where first place in a large show in the open class. Not sure what they were judged on because of lack of SOP. But they are good stock. I got them through a divorce sale and paid WAY WAY WAY too much for them..LOL

 

[duluthralphie]

Not sure what a Pat is -- but if you go back to RC Punnett -- the chicks are definitely, undoubtedly autosexing. the people between then and now have caused the ambiguity with their ill-advised, albeit well intentioned attempts to improve the breed. IMO....

This is an example of Legbar autosexing from Punnetts day. To my eye - each of the top 3 (males) have headspots, and the females have more distinctive stripes. If they don't look like these chicks, at hatch -- then maybe they are suspect. ;O)

I'll leave y'all to it....as to me it seems kind of unequivocal..... best of luck.

A "Pat" is a chick that could go either way, I doubt many of you remember back when "Pat" was on SNL. He/She was a character that they kept you guessing as to his or her sex. People talking to him/her would ask questions that would give indication to her/his sex and they always wrote it so you never could tell. It was funny back then. So If I have one I do not know I call it a "Pat". I get Pats in other breeds too but at older ages.

BTW I agree with you it is what has happened between than and now that has made the ambiguity. I wonder if and when CLB's become readily available at hatcheries if that will not be one of the differences between hatchery and breeder birds.

BTW I have the one white sport I think she is a hen, but cannot be sure. I had one other hatch but it was weak and had leg problems dying at 2 days old. This one is healthy. I plan to raise a flock of them if I can. BUT they will not be breeding with my good CLB's.

 

[KPenley]

This year I only keep 6 pullets for breeding and the original pair I bought.  (I had a trio but the one hen got chomped on by an eagle).  The other pullets from last year became EE hens. They are either in my layer flock or sold as EE.    I do mark the best looking chicks and those that hatch the easiest fastest for breeding. Put will pull them out of next years breeders if they are not what I want.

The trio I originally bought where first place in a large show in the open class. Not sure what they were judged on because of lack of SOP.  But they are good stock.  I got them through a divorce sale and paid WAY WAY WAY too much for them..LOL

Sounds like you have a solid plan, and I think most of us paid too much...at least in the beginning Do you know you can pin the SOP to the cages? Congratulations on your win!SOP Most of the Judges are getting to know our breed since it has been introduced to the Standards Committee, who are doing a great job of getting the word out, so that will help us a lot in future shows!

 

[duluthralphie]

Sounds like you have a solid plan, and I think most of us paid too much...at least in the beginning

Do you know you can pin the SOP to the cages? Congratulations on your win!SOP Most of the Judges are getting to know our breed since it has been introduced to the Standards Committee, who are doing a great job of getting the word out, so that will help us a lot in future shows!

Thanks for that! I have it marked and printed I am going to hang a copy in my CLB coop. ( yeah, my CLB have their own coop and run. After the eagle munched on my hen they went into a covered run/prison. I am not feeding any more raptors a $100 a plate meals.

 

[newchick13wa]

I was told this could be a legbar. I had two blue eggs and was told those were the CL but this little one and one other came from a light egg. More pink/tan not blue. I also have 3 orpingtons?
Unless it's one of these but a white boy? I lost track of what was what. I only hatched 5 of 12 eggs. None of my blue eggs hatched. So I'm confused haha.