Cream Legbars

[OneMountainAcres]

Even that tiny smidgeon of white?
I've seen pure ccl girls with a smidgeon of a dot. (At least if I recall correctly)

In pure cream legbars, the girls are barred also, that's why they may have a white spot. If you're mixed chicks are a Marans roo over CCL hens then any white spot on the head indicates male. If it was a CCL roo over marans hens then they would all be barred (I think that's right)

 

[jerryse]

Even that tiny smidgeon of white?
I've seen pure ccl girls with a smidgeon of a dot. (At least if I recall correctly)

Barred hens have 1 barring gene that they pass only to their sons . Travels on the sex chromosome making sex links possible . That tiny bit of white indicates barring .

In pure cream legbars, the girls are barred also, that's why they may have a white spot. If you're mixed chicks are a Marans roo over CCL hens then any white spot on the head indicates male. If it was a CCL roo over marans hens then they would all be barred (I think that's right)

Correct .

 

[GaryDean26]

I haven't got a response on the CL hybrid thread yet, but wanted more CL opinions.
These chicks are a blue copper marans over CCL (Rees line)
But some have an extremely light head dot. I think the Rees line had some light head dots on the girls but I can't be sure.
Can you help me with these.
One pic is: left : no dot, middle: light dot, right: big dot
One pic is single light dot chick
And one is a group pic. There is a marans pure in there too.
But 5/6 have some dot on there heads. Just being so light has me wondering.
Any input is appreciated

I am not 100% sure what the question is. As said above if you use a Blue Copper Marans Cockerel (solid dark color based male) over Cream Legbars hens (barred females) we will get sex links. That means that all the ones with spots on the head (not matter how large or small) will be males and all the ones with out spots are females. As for the size of the spot there will always be some variation. If you were to line breed birds with a concentrated spots or line breed birds with large spots you would be able to increase the frequency of what you has selected for because like beget like, but even then you would see some variation. The cross to the Marans may be part of the variation too. Cuckoo varieties have the dark color base and chicks come out black with a head spot. They are NOT autosexing through because they can only be sexed with 80% accuracy and 100% accuracy is required to be an autosexing breed. The reason the Cuckoo can't be 100% auto sexing is becuse of this varriation in the size of the head spots and there are no other clues as to which is what. With the chipmunk pattern you aren't just looking for the head spot, you are also looking at the eye liner, the dorsal strips, the down color, etc.

 

[duluthralphie]

In pure cream legbars, the girls are barred also, that's why they may have a white spot. If you're mixed chicks are a Marans roo over CCL hens then any white spot on the head indicates male. If it was a CCL roo over marans hens then they would all be barred (I think that's right)

This causes me more grief than anything else when I sell chicks. I will have people question why I am trying to slip them a mail. One person called me 4 times in a week saying I gave them 2 boys because they had white spots on the heads... Then they called and said I had to replace two chicks because they were sick and died... Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Now I have a piece of paper I give everyone that says sexing is not done by the white spot alone, females can have a white spot. Then I added feeding and care instructions finishing with a line that says " I am not responsible for chicks that die after leaving my care. I will not replace chicks that die, there are too many variables I do not control, IF YOU THINK THE CHICK YOU ARE GETTING IS NOT HEALTHY REFUSE IT AND LEAVE IT HERE!

I also tell them as they leave to look at the chicks well before leaving here, makes sure they are healthy or leave them here. No replacements..




All that because one family "killed" two chicks. I have sold to over 30 people this spring only one has had any die...



Sorry, this turned into a ranting vent..LOL

 

[ChicKat]

This causes me more grief than anything else when I sell chicks. I will have people question why I am trying to slip them a mail. One person called me 4 times in a week saying I gave them 2 boys because they had white spots on the heads... Then they called and said I had to replace two chicks because they were sick and died... Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Now I have a piece of paper I give everyone that says sexing is not done by the white spot alone, females can have a white spot. Then I added feeding and care instructions finishing with a line that says " I am not responsible for chicks that die after leaving my care. I will not replace chicks that die, there are too many variables I do not control, IF YOU THINK THE CHICK YOU ARE GETTING IS NOT HEALTHY REFUSE IT AND LEAVE IT HERE!

I also tell them as they leave to look at the chicks well before leaving here, makes sure they are healthy or leave them here. No replacements..




All that because one family "killed" two chicks. I have sold to over 30 people this spring only one has had any die...



Sorry, this turned into a ranting vent..LOL

Important facts there though.

Do you have concerns about allowing people on your place that already have chickens and want more? (Thinking bio-security here)---- Your instructions papers are a good idea IMO to help manage expectations and protect the chicks.

GaryDean26 - good insights.

 

[duluthralphie]

Important facts there though.

Do you have concerns about allowing people on your place that already have chickens and want more? (Thinking bio-security here)---- Your instructions papers are a good idea IMO to help manage expectations and protect the chicks.

GaryDean26 - good insights.

I do not over worry it, but yes it is of some concern. I live on very sandy soil, the chances of anything sticking here is slim.

I do not let them reach into the chicks, or touch any of my birds. They actually park away from where my birds are.

I probably have as big or bigger chance of picking something up at the feed stores. Most of my buyers have no birds or less than half a dozen. I live fairly close to the twin Cities and 95% of the buyers come from there and want to start a Backyard flock.

Which is why they question the birds being female or male. They have read males have a spot on their head. and that is where there knowledge ends.

 

[caychris]

My thoughts on Biosecurity are that you would generally have various places that the birds will be at different stages of life and that you protect your breeding pairs by never introducing birds/people into their environment that have not been controlled. You also have places for the public to meet birds (cull pens/chick room) once birds enter this area they they cannot be introduced back to the flock without quarantine. It may be possible to be so militant with biosecruity that you make your birds vulnerable when leaving such controlled environments so I think it is good to have at least some space where birds immune systems can be challenged

In my opinion having hand sanitizer, muck boots/crocks for people to wear and possibly chicken smock/aprons and a place for the public to meet birds destined to leave the flock is not an unreasonable way to go about things. In general the more investment you are in danger of losing the more serious about biosecurity you will be.

 

[duluthralphie]

My thoughts on Biosecurity are that you would generally have various places that the birds will be at different stages of life and that you protect your breeding pairs by never introducing birds/people into their environment that have not been controlled. You also have places for the public to meet birds (cull pens/chick room) once birds enter this area they they cannot be introduced back to the flock without quarantine. It may be possible to be so militant with biosecruity that you make your birds vulnerable when leaving such controlled environments so I think it is good to have at least some space where birds immune systems can be challenged

In my opinion having hand sanitizer, muck boots/crocks for people to wear and possibly chicken smock/aprons and a place for the public to meet birds destined to leave the flock is not an unreasonable way to go about things. In general the more investment you are in danger of losing the more serious about biosecurity you will be.

I think that is key, While I would be heart broken to lose all my birds, I have less in them than a good weekend in Las Vegas. In addition, in my case my Wife is retiring in 3 years, I am retired. We will be getting rid of the birds then anyways as they do not fit in our long term plans. I see lots of fish in my future!

 

[ChicKat]

sometimes when I think about how casual we are or all can be compared to the risk, I do cringe. At times I want to put a big fence around the chicken portion of the property and put up biosecurity signage. Definitely wish that other chicken people who aren't authorized (like chicken-sitter when I am away) would be more aware. -- Non-chicken people less a concern that's for sure.

Had a cockerel with a swollen eye and thought it was MG -- took him to diagnostic Lab at A&M and he tested clean of MG. The vet there impressed on me how rare that was -- and the steps that I would need to maintain MG free chickens.

Here is a link from an article I had written for the CL club's newsletter regarding my discussion with Dr. Moore:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g4aklH2XpPWOGGrzq4Z5rER2JS0LjOL4cpgKLGSnbcA/edit?usp=sharing

Just one point:

• he said it is SO RARE NOT to have MG in a backyard flock that I need to be VERY careful to keep my flock that way. No new birds - no visitors to my pens, strict biosecurity, probably shouldn't go to shows because it could mean exposure to disease.

Everyone has to decide, of course, where their chicken enjoyment is infringed upon by their biosecurity needs......I'm still working on it.

Sometimes, I even worry when the State man comes to test my flock for P/T yearly, and when the man comes annually after P/T is satisfactory, to renew my state seller's license. (how many flocks have you already visited today?) -- I think I would have them walk through bleach baths or something prior to entering.....

.Few years ago, a friend and I went to Mammoth caves in KY, upon exit of which we needed to walk through a disinfectant soaked material so that our shoes would not carry organism of deadly white-nosed bat syndrome out that could infect other bats. Seemed little enough to ask. If the bleach walk-thru was set up before hand -- it wouldn't be too much to ask.

oops better post this and hope the storm hasn't cut the satellite reception

 

[chrissyr]

In pure cream legbars, the girls are barred also, that's why they may have a white spot. If you're mixed chicks are a Marans roo over CCL hens then any white spot on the head indicates male. If it was a CCL roo over marans hens then they would all be barred (I think that's right)

Barred hens have 1 barring gene that they pass only to their sons . Travels on the sex chromosome making sex links possible . That tiny bit of white indicates barring . 
Correct .

Thank you all so much. That makes total sense as to why the ccl girl may have a small dot,
But the sex link OE's will not. I appreciate your help