Cree Or Crele

[wingsofglory]

Thank you Whiskey Bay I think you have described what I saw six years at the Alaska State Fair.

Huge rock-type birds of an even molten gold color throughout. Texture in the gold was the barred pattern. Knock-out impressive birds. They were as big as turkeys too. The gold with just like a new gold coin.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Quote:
Is double factored BB (as opposed to Bb) ? BB male would breed *true* with barred hens, but Bb male with barred hens would still give a % non-barred female chicks, right?
Ah, Crele.
Throw in the color and it gets confusing to me. I have Wheaten Barred Serama and Lemon Blue Barred / Brown Red Barred Cochins, but nothing I think is true Crele.
This barred Serama
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/dipsydoodledoo/Serama/122010026.jpg
is *different* from this barred Serama
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/dipsydoodledoo/Serama/42510034.jpg
, but are both Barred Wheaten?

So glad you brought this up, Greg. Questions I've been meaning to ask!

Lisa

that's pretty much it , yes

However you need to use a double factored (B/B crele male to you solid bb hens, this will give all beautiful dark creles, no bb reds
if you use a single factored (B/b) you should get 50% of each both males and females.

The doubled ones look great but are a washed out color, much paler
single factored ones are the ones that have the nice rich color that the bb males carry and look great

 

[lildinkem]

This my reply from BoB.
Doesn't mean anything to you folks. Does to me.

"Hi Bill, The first and most important thing to remember when breeding is to fix the type in your mind and regardless of colour and markings always pick the birds closest in type to what you are trying to achieve, if you only have one good hen it is better to use just her rather than every hen you have solely to hatch large numbers, put her back to her best son and select the best from these to work with,
Crele's are actually cuckoo partridge and the best i produced came from using these two colours, but yes you are right and a lot of creles have come about from people trying to make lemon cuckoo using cuckoo to buff."

 

[Whiskey Bay]

Quote:
He states right there what everyone has been stating right there. Cuckoo(barred) over partridge(BB).When it comes down to the offspring coming from cuckoo/buff, you never neccesarily know what the particular lines behind those birds are... Anything in the birds line can possibly pop up.

 

[lildinkem]

Quote:
He states right there what everyone has been stating right there. Cuckoo(barred) over partridge(BB).When it comes down to the offspring coming from cuckoo/buff, you never neccesarily know what the particular lines behind those birds are... Anything in the birds line can possibly pop up.

Exactly! It is possible! When it comes down to lines. Not everyones Buff lines are the same. Buff are very genetically diverse. That is why I have 4 Buff Sports. A White Orp hatched from 2 pure Buff Orps. You just don't know. Still will not be a pure Crele unless the hen/pullet have the Salmon chest, but they can be made to look like a Crele from a Cuckoo and a Buff. Not all of my hatchmates to the Buff Sports are White. Only one out of 10 looks White. But it is possible to make a bird that looks like one.
Same with Lavender vs. Self Blue. they look alot alike but are genetically two different birds.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

I'm no really following you I dont guess, a crele is a crele.. a crel looking bird is not.. like Bob (who ever he is) said himself, it takes barred and partridge (bb red) the buff projects will just be a look a like and will never be a true crele though, period. I'm sorry if you dont understand that, but that's just the way it is.
Creles have a black breast, under carage and tail and saddles, you WILL NOT get that off a buff bird.
It's just like what they call crele in polish, they arent creles, the are usually barred gold laced. Look cool, but that is not the genetic make up of a crele.
I fully understand buffs have a sorts of stuff in them and fully understand what leakage is. BUT to get a crele like BOB's pic earlier, like he himself said, you will have to use a partridge, anything else will not be a real crele. If a non true breeding look a like is all you want, fine, but dont count on them being crele.
I'm not trying to be a pain, but I breed for countless colors every year in various breeds. It's what I do. I make colors in birds that they dont already exisit in, I enjoy it and it's fun. But the comment of many creles have been made off using buff x barred, well that's a 1 in a million deal there that will honestly just never happen.
When you make one that way, Lord please post a pic of it.
You'll be years ahead of the game if you focuc that project on lemon cuckoos and just get you some partridge orps from Bob to do the creles with. After all, if you go to all the trouble to make a new color, dont you at least want to know it will breed true in the end for you.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
He states right there what everyone has been stating right there. Cuckoo(barred) over partridge(BB).When it comes down to the offspring coming from cuckoo/buff, you never neccesarily know what the particular lines behind those birds are... Anything in the birds line can possibly pop up.

Exactly! It is possible! When it comes down to lines. Not everyones Buff lines are the same. Buff are very genetically diverse. That is why I have 4 Buff Sports. A White Orp hatched from 2 pure Buff Orps. You just don't know. Still will not be a pure Crele unless the hen/pullet have the Salmon chest, but they can be made to look like a Crele from a Cuckoo and a Buff. Not all of my hatchmates to the Buff Sports are White. Only one out of 10 looks White. But it is possible to make a bird that looks like one.
Same with Lavender vs. Self Blue. they look alot alike but are genetically two different birds.

Incorrect. Lavender and self-blue ARE genetically the same in most cases. It IS possible, but not usua,l to make a self-blue bird based upon Bl rather than lav.

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

Hi! I didn't know partridge and black breasted red were the same color.

...Creles have a black breast, under carage and tail and saddles...

So this Serama guy,

has black breast, etc --- would you call him crele?
Thanks!

Lisa​

 

[lildinkem]

Quote:
I am sure BoB would say the same about you, unless you do not raise Orpingtons, and want to know who is the best color breeder of Orpingtons, BoB Fellows is a no name to you. To many he is one of the greats in the Orpington world in breeding the standard varieties and making new varieties. Do a GOOGLE of his name with Orpingtons.
I am sorry you did not read my last post. I said "they can be made to look like a Crele". Like I have said, I am going by the person who gave me my Cuckoos, he says he has made some that look like Creles. IF you still want to change what I write and say I wrote something different, I will still comeback and correct you with my own quotes. I have all the time in the world to do so.


Sonoran Silkies:
I was told here and on other sites that self Blues and a true Lavenders are not the same genetically. So you are saying a Self Blue (which is a Blue lacking any other color other then Blue) cock bred to a Black hen will produce ONLY Self Blues or Blacks? I know that a Lavender cock taken to a Black hen will make Lavenders and Blacks with the Lav gene in half but recessive. That is what you are saying, RIGHT?

 

[Illia]

Quote:
Self-Blue and Lavender are the same, just the Self-Blue is the APA recognized term for it. Both if crossed to black will give 100% splits, both are dilutions of black. BLUE (no self in the name) is the one that is different, and creates blue and black offspring from blue x black.