Crele color question

[Toastyone]

So I am looking at getting some Crele English Orpingtons. I am also going to be adding Partridge and Blue at some point. I've started reading about what colors can be bred to what. My question is how do I know if the crele is a "single" or "double" barred gene? Is it a breeding trial and error? What I have read about the color says that some birds are sex linked and some are not.

 

[The Moonshiner]

So I am looking at getting some Crele English Orpingtons. I am also going to be adding Partridge and Blue at some point. I've started reading about what colors can be bred to what. My question is how do I know if the crele is a "single" or "double" barred gene? Is it a breeding trial and error? What I have read about the color says that some birds are sex linked and some are not.

Its not that its either a single barred gene or a double barred gene. Its just the barred gene and whether or not he has one gene or two genes for barring.
The gene takes the color away in sections or bars. If he has two copies it takes pretty much twice as much color away so a double barred looks overall lighter then a sigle barred male.

Barring is a sex linked gene so males have two slots for the gene but females only have one slot. Barring is also dominate so if they have it it shows. Females cant pass it to their female offspring only their male offspring. Males pass one of their two genes (barred or non barred) to all offspring.

You can test breed him to any none barred female. If he is double all offspring will be barred. If he is single barred half his offspring will be barred and half will not be barred.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Toastyone]

It does! Just the answer I was looking for. Thank you very much

 

[dheltzel]

You can test breed him to any none barred female. If he is double all offspring will be barred. If he is single barred half his offspring will be barred and half will not be barred.

Hope that makes sense.

You can test breed him to any female (barred or not, the pullets genes are irrelevant, you could use a barred rock or RIR female), and if any of the resulting pullets are non-barred, the roo is heterozygous for barring. If he is homozygous (double barred), then every pullet he produces will be barred.

The thing to remember about Crele is that the barring works exactly like black barring (barred rocks, cucko marans, etc). You can visually tell if a cockerel is single or double barred by the amount of what compared to a single barred bird (and all barred pullets are single barred, as noted).

I took this pic for the express purpose of showing the difference between single and double barred cockerels that have the Crele coloration. This breed is the (new to the US) Welbar, and shows 2 cockerels I raised last year. These may have had the same father (I had several double barred roos in my pens), but the mother of the single barred roo on the right was a Welsummer (unbarred), while the double barred roo on the left had a Welbar for a mother. I had both color hens in my main pen and was keeping the youngsters until they reached about this size before culling the single barred cockerels (all the pullets were pure Welbars because the roos were double barred). Incidentally, the Welbar pullet's colors look exactly like the single barred cockerel, and those (single barred) cockerels mature into stunningly beautiful roos.

 

[The Moonshiner]

You can test breed him to any female (barred or not, the pullets genes are irrelevant, you could use a barred rock or RIR female), and if any of the resulting pullets are non-barred, the roo is heterozygous for barring. If he is homozygous (double barred), then every pullet he produces will be barred. The thing to remember about Crele is that the barring works exactly like black barring (barred rocks, cucko marans, etc). You can visually tell if a cockerel is single or double barred by the amount of what compared to a single barred bird (and all barred pullets are single barred, as noted). I took this pic for the express purpose of showing the difference between single and double barred cockerels that have the Crele coloration. This breed is the (new to the US) Welbar, and shows 2 cockerels I raised last year. These may have had the same father (I had several double barred roos in my pens), but the mother of the single barred roo on the right was a Welsummer (unbarred), while the double barred roo on the left had a Welbar for a mother. I had both color hens in my main pen and was keeping the youngsters until they reached about this size before culling the single barred cockerels (all the pullets were pure Welbars because the roos were double barred). Incidentally, the Welbar pullet's colors look exactly like the single barred cockerel, and those (single barred) cockerels mature into stunningly beautiful roos.

Youre correct but double barred roosters can vary quite a bit in how light they get. For a newbie a darker double barred may be mistaken for a single barred. Chances are they could get it right but test breeding will leave no doubt. And for test breeding you can use a barred female which will give you all barred cockerels. In the case of a double barred rooster all pullets would be barred and all cockerels double barred. With a single barred rooster you would get half barred and half non barred pullets. As well as half single barred and half double barred cockerels. For a newbie the cockerels wont be telling much so you would be breeding twice the chicks for the same results. Sticking with a non barred hen would be a better choice. Imo. I also included pics. All females are single barred of course. The cockerels are both double barred and from the same parents. As you can see theres quite a difference in their coloring and the top cockerel is almost the same as the single barred pullet in front of him.

 

[dheltzel]

Youre correct but double barred roosters can vary quite a bit in how light they get. For a newbie a darker double barred may be mistaken for a single barred. Chances are they could get it right but test breeding will leave no doubt.
And for test breeding you can use a barred female which will give you all barred cockerels. In the case of a double barred rooster all pullets would be barred and all cockerels double barred.
With a single barred rooster you would get half barred and half non barred pullets. As well as half single barred and half double barred cockerels.
For a newbie the cockerels wont be telling much so you would be breeding twice the chicks for the same results. Sticking with a non barred hen would be a better choice. Imo.
I also included pics. All females are single barred of course. The cockerels are both double barred and from the same parents. As you can see theres quite a difference in their coloring and the top cockerel is almost the same as the single barred pullet in front of him.

What breeds are your pics?
The cock in the second pic looks like my California Greys, bu the hens are deeper bodied than the CG's I have and look more like barred rocks.

 

[The Moonshiner]

What breeds are your pics?
The cock in the second pic looks like my California Greys, bu the hens are deeper bodied than the CG's I have and look more like barred rocks.

Theyre leghorns

 

[dheltzel]

Theyre leghorns

Nice birds. Where did you get them from? Barred Leghorns are not common. Privett Hatchery has them, and Cali Greys, and I often wondered how they were different.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Nice birds. Where did you get them from? Barred Leghorns are not common. Privett Hatchery has them, and Cali Greys, and I often wondered how they were different.

I started with a trio from a breeder out of southern missouri. They used to be a showable color but guess that changed so I was able to talk him out of them.
I did get some from welp hatchery (which are privetts and ships from privett) They were junk. Way too heavy bodied and more then half had red earlobes so i scrapped them.
Imo no hatcheries sell any leghorns besides whites and browns that are worth working with.
Colored ones are hard to find and in the last 5 or 6 years all ive found in barred are from hatcheries.

 

[bk15]

Is this a crele??