Crested Cream Legbars

[KirstKennedy]

So this is a bit of a long winded and multifaceted post.

I bought a dozen crested cream legbar hatching eggs from a local breeder (so no shipping involved) and they were $70 CAD. When candling on day 7 it was clear that 3 eggs weren't fertilized. The other 9 were developing perfectly though. So all 9/9 fertilized eggs made it to lock down. 8/9 hatched and the 9th one was fully formed but malpositioned and had passed away. Of the 8 healthy chicks I ended up with, 6 are roosters. I live in town and I'm not technically allowed to have chickens. They only enforce this rule if someone complains about them though. So obviously I cant have any roosters. I told the breeder how things turned out and all she suggested was raising the roosters for meat, which I clearly can't do given where I live. I know its not her fault at all that I ended up with so many roosters, that's just the luck of the draw. But, I kind of feel like she could have offered me 3 eggs to replace the 3 that were clearly not fertilized but maybe that's not fair of me? I dont know. I just feel sad that I paid $70 for 2 hens and I'd like to think that if I were in her shoes I'd offer something to the customer as consolation.

Also, I'd like to get some confirmation that I do indeed have 6 roosters and 2 hens. I'm pretty certain I do because the yellow spots on their heads are pretty undeniable but I thought I would share some pictures just to be sure.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read, look at pics and reply.

 

[R2elk]

So this is a bit of a long winded and multifaceted post.

I bought a dozen crested cream legbar hatching eggs from a local breeder (so no shipping involved) and they were $70 CAD. When candling on day 7 it was clear that 3 eggs weren't fertilized. The other 9 were developing perfectly though. So all 9/9 fertilized eggs made it to lock down. 8/9 hatched and the 9th one was fully formed but malpositioned and had passed away. Of the 8 healthy chicks I ended up with, 6 are roosters. I live in town and I'm not technically allowed to have chickens. They only enforce this rule if someone complains about them though. So obviously I cant have any roosters. I told the breeder how things turned out and all she suggested was raising the roosters for meat, which I clearly can't do given where I live. I know its not her fault at all that I ended up with so many roosters, that's just the luck of the draw. But, I kind of feel like she could have offered me 3 eggs to replace the 3 that were clearly not fertilized but maybe that's not fair of me? I dont know. I just feel sad that I paid $70 for 2 hens and I'd like to think that if I were in her shoes I'd offer something to the customer as consolation.

Also, I'd like to get some confirmation that I do indeed have 6 roosters and 2 hens. I'm pretty certain I do because the yellow spots on their heads are pretty undeniable but I thought I would share some pictures just to be sure.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read, look at pics and reply.

Looks like 2 pullets and 6 cockerels to me.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

But, I kind of feel like she could have offered me 3 eggs to replace the 3 that were clearly not fertilized but maybe that's not fair of me?

Hi there, hope you are enjoying BYC!

Sorry for the situation YOU put yourself in..

There are many alternatives to how this could have gone down. And in the US there is a law that states what percentage of eggs MUST be fertile to be sold as fertile eggs must be 85% fertile.... https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/ahfss/mpes/pdfs/Quick_Reference_Guide.pdf

9 out of 12 would only be 75%. However, lack of development at day 7 does not equal infertility... did you pop it open and look for the blastodisk/blastoderm or do any other kind of analysis?

I kind of feel like she could have offered me 3 eggs to replace the 3 that were clearly not fertilized but maybe that's not fair of me?

If that's what you want or expect, you NEED to ask for it instead of expecting someone to respond in a way that you hope for. Folks aren't mind readers. We are all doing our best and we have other obligations to meet and things going on in our minds... a hatch rate of 9 (or 8).. SEEMS VERY acceptable to me... without offering more eggs that might be more roosters that you're already not sure what to do with... That's all you need is 3 more roosters! The hen determines gender in chickens... hers are obviously throwing lots of boys.

Why not just buy already hatched and sexed chicks? Why even get chickens JUST because you can get away with it? SMH But even then going and getting hatching eggs, knowing you would get not less than 50% males... why would you expect the breeder to solve YOUR issue? Most folks raise their roosters for meat. Give it away to someone else to raise for meat if you can't. And DON'T do hatching eggs or straight run chick without a PLAN in place for ALL the roosters. Count yourself lucky you got 2 females for that 70 CAD... I spent over $150 USD to end up with ONLY 3 (not perfect) cockerels and NO hens from hatching eggs once. Even when you CAN have chickens and roosters, it's still frustrating!

I just feel sad that I paid $70 for 2 hens and I'd like to think that if I were in her shoes I'd offer something to the customer as consolation.

Try having another perspective... you spent funds on the WHOLE experience NOT just 2 pullet chicks. Aside from JUST getting the girls, you also had an adventure and I'm guessing you learned tons along the way. Too bad it didn't include that.. laws are in place for a reason EVEN if we don't agree with them.

Now if I were in the sellers shoes... I would't even have sold you those eggs... IF I KNEW you weren't allowed to have chickens. That's just putting animals in a place where they might be dumped by the person who didn't have a solid plan and I care more about my community than a measly $, but not everyone has that conviction... Or the thought process to be able to make truly helpful suggestions according to YOUR situation. I would suggest you start looking now to re home them to somewhere that either has the space and is allowed or where they can raise them until table time. If you have feed store posting boards or Craigslist farm and garden section are both great places to start.. Charge a fee to recoup some of your cost OR give them away in order to reduce your outlay and dealing with any future issues. Schooling isn't free in most locations but some lessons are worth every penny spent.

No, I do not offer my customers consolation prizes... None of them offer me consolation prizes if they get 100% hatch and fertility. Would you be sending her something extra if they all hatched, doubtful. I presume that anyone making the purchase has weighed their pros and cons and determined IF they can afford the risk.. I do my absolute best to provide the best product. I never presume folks are hurting financially and that a hatching egg purchase would be enough to make or break them and most folks buying seem to be even more well off than me. It cost money to produce eggs, to provide shelter, and keep the extra rooster for breeding instead of just hens. Folks who don't do it don't know the challenges we face as breeders which is much different than back yard multipliers. I KNOW my fertility rate, my hatch rates, and maybe even my actual hatch gender ratio according to breed. But I am an OCD perfectionist, with a NEED to know all the details... including reports back from ALL my patrons if possible. The price I ask for hatching eggs or birds IS the price that's FAIR to ME as a keeper to continue keeping them in a fashion that allows also offering to others at a fair market value. But to keep birds top quality includes test mating and raising out a LOT of birds including rooster to only choose the best of the best.. it's NOT a cheap en-devour, period... and comes with a whole host of challenges not faced by keepers of hen only flocks.

Anyways, please understand that how I have addressed you is the way I would address a friend I care about and not a stranger. So try not to take it as a personal attack, if possible as it isn't intended that way!

Given all the information so far... I would cut my losses and move forward calling it a valuable lesson, and maybe not buying from them again, at least not hatching eggs in YOUR situation. I would NOT be adding in 3 hatching eggs with more possible roosters. As far as I can tell the seller did NO wrong, despite not reacting as YOU hoped or expected.

Hope the 2 girls you got, are fantastic hens when they mature!

You might consider selling all of them for what you paid.. to someone who wants to breed them in the future and look to buying some pullets or pullet chicks instead of keeping these.

FWIW... hatching eggs from the hatcheries here are almost always a bumm deal IMO, here in the US... The eggs are often the same price as a chick but with no guarantee of hatch or gender... making the eggs ultimately higher cost than just getting pullet chicks in the first place.


Hope this helps with some ideas how to go forward at least.

 

[KirstKennedy]

Hi there, hope you are enjoying BYC!

Sorry for the situation YOU put yourself in..

If this is how you speak to your friends....yikes

There are many alternatives to how this could have gone down. And in the US there is a law that states what percentage of eggs MUST be fertile to be sold as fertile eggs must be 85% fertile.... https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/ahfss/mpes/pdfs/Quick_Reference_Guide.pdf

Yeah but I'm not in the USA and you might have tried to reply with a bit of humility and a humble attitude given you don't know how it is here. You clearly don't know what the chicken situation is like in Canada at all.

9 out of 12 would only be 75%. However, lack of development at day 7 does not equal infertility... did you pop it open and look for the blastodisk/blastoderm or do any other kind of analysis?

Yes, I did confirm they weren't fertilized. I always open eggs that don't work out to see if I can figure out why. That's how I knew the unhatched 9th egg was malpositioned.

If that's what you want or expect, you NEED to ask for it instead of expecting someone to respond in a way that you hope for. Folks aren't mind readers. We are all doing our best and we have other obligations to meet and things going on in our minds... a hatch rate of 9 (or 8).. SEEMS VERY acceptable to me... without offering more eggs that might be more roosters that you're already not sure what to do with... That's all you need is 3 more roosters! The hen determines gender in chickens... hers are obviously throwing lots of boys.

I dont expect a mind reader, just a considerate person. You're right, I could end up with more roosters and thats a very helpful and valid point. Thank you.

Why not just buy already hatched and sexed chicks? Why even get chickens JUST because you can get away with it? SMH But even then going and getting hatching eggs, knowing you would get not less than 50% males... why would you expect the breeder to solve YOUR issue? Most folks raise their roosters for meat. Give it away to someone else to raise for meat if you can't. And DON'T do hatching eggs or straight run chick without a PLAN in place for ALL the roosters. Count yourself lucky you got 2 females for that 70 CAD... I spent over $150 USD to end up with ONLY 3 (not perfect) cockerels and NO hens from hatching eggs once. Even when you CAN have chickens and roosters, it's still frustrating!

Already hatched/sexed chicks are almost impossible to get where I live. If you can get them, they're far more expensive than hatching eggs. I'm talking double or triple the cost. The only hatchery in reasonable distance cancelled their orders this year because of covid. They also only offer a few breeds that are very boring (red sex link, black sex link, barred rock etc). The breeders are sold out a year in advance. In Canada there is WAY more demand than supply for chickens. Except when it comes to roosters because most places don't even "allow" chickens.
Also the flaming emoji face with the "SMH", not how anyone would speak to a friend. I really hope you don't reply to people like this often. I'll be ok but I could see a lot of people being completely turned off from this page from a response like this and they'd miss all the helpful information then. Maybe time for some self reflecting? Some empathy building?
In Canada, there are very few places that outright allow chickens. I would be hard pressed to find a city that offered both employment for our fields and the ability to legally own chickens. It's a very relaxed rule though where they rarely ask people to get rid of them. I purposely own less than a dozen at any given time and never keep roosters (I give them away on kijiji). I get hatching eggs because I have 3 young kids who love the experience and because its far more affordable than buying chicks because of how things are in the chicken world in Canada.
I never expected the breeder to solve my issue. Just thought having 3 unfertilized wasn't really fair and wondering how others felt about it. A kind, respectful opinion maybe.


Try having another perspective... you spent funds on the WHOLE experience NOT just 2 pullet chicks. Aside from JUST getting the girls, you also had an adventure and I'm guessing you learned tons along the way. Too bad it didn't include that.. laws are in place for a reason EVEN if we don't agree with them.

This is another helpful, great point. The experience of hatching again was fun. The money wasnt just for the two hens. Thank you.

Now if I were in the sellers shoes... I would't even have sold you those eggs... IF I KNEW you weren't allowed to have chickens. That's just putting animals in a place where they might be dumped by the person who didn't have a solid plan and I care more about my community than a measly $, but not everyone has that conviction... Or the thought process to be able to make truly helpful suggestions according to YOUR situation. I would suggest you start looking now to re home them to somewhere that either has the space and is allowed or where they can raise them until table time. If you have feed store posting boards or Craigslist farm and garden section are both great places to start.. Charge a fee to recoup some of your cost OR give them away in order to reduce your outlay and dealing with any future issues. Schooling isn't free in most locations but some lessons are worth every penny spent.

So here's an interesting fact, she's not allowed to have chickens where she lives either! If someone complains, she could be asked to get rid of them. That's how it is in Canada. She lives on several acres out in the country so the risk is less but the rules say that she can't have chickens either.

No, I do not offer my customers consolation prizes... None of them offer me consolation prizes if they get 100% hatch and fertility. Would you be sending her something extra if they all hatched, doubtful. I presume that anyone making the purchase has weighed their pros and cons and determined IF they can afford the risk.. I do my absolute best to provide the best product. I never presume folks are hurting financially and that a hatching egg purchase would be enough to make or break them and most folks buying seem to be even more well off than me. It cost money to produce eggs, to provide shelter, and keep the extra rooster for breeding instead of just hens. Folks who don't do it don't know the challenges we face as breeders which is much different than back yard multipliers. I KNOW my fertility rate, my hatch rates, and maybe even my actual hatch gender ratio according to breed. But I am an OCD perfectionist, with a NEED to know all the details... including reports back from ALL my patrons if possible. The price I ask for hatching eggs or birds IS the price that's FAIR to ME as a keeper to continue keeping them in a fashion that allows also offering to others at a fair market value. But to keep birds top quality includes test mating and raising out a LOT of birds including rooster to only choose the best of the best.. it's NOT a cheap en-devour, period... and comes with a whole host of challenges not faced by keepers of hen only flocks.

Yes, customers do give consolation prizes to businesses that offer great service. I give positive reviews, I purchase their products again, and I refer more clients to them. In fact I've already referred several new clients to this breeder who have purchased her products. I made these referrals before receiving her product and using it. Now I wont be referring, repurchasing or giving positive reviews. That's how business works.
No financial strain or a make or break type situation. Never suggested there was. It's the price vs product and whether that's fair. Mainly the 3 unfertilized eggs. Not to neglect the fact that getting mostly roosters might influence the breeder's generosity. Generosity that I totally understand is non obligatory.

Anyways, please understand that how I have addressed you is the way I would address a friend I care about and not a stranger. So try not to take it as a personal attack, if possible as it isn't intended that way!

What a load...

Given all the information so far... I would cut my losses and move forward calling it a valuable lesson, and maybe not buying from them again, at least not hatching eggs in YOUR situation. I would NOT be adding in 3 hatching eggs with more possible roosters. As far as I can tell the seller did NO wrong, despite not reacting as YOU hoped or expected.

Hope the 2 girls you got, are fantastic hens when they mature!

You might consider selling all of them for what you paid.. to someone who wants to breed them in the future and look to buying some pullets or pullet chicks instead of keeping these.

FWIW... hatching eggs from the hatcheries here are almost always a bumm deal IMO, here in the US... The eggs are often the same price as a chick but with no guarantee of hatch or gender... making the eggs ultimately higher cost than just getting pullet chicks in the first
place.

It's pretty different here. I hope you've gained some insight on that today.


Hope this helps with some ideas how to go forward at least.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

What I learned was that no amount of friendly emoji's makes up for folks not wanting to hear the truth.. OR for that truth coming across as rude.. and expressing my frustration over all the laws being written for people who follow them NOT the ones who don't care was considered rude.

Why is that people always focus on certain things... like the flaming face instead of the hug or fingers crossed cheering them on???

I never said ugly things about you.. sorry it came off as too blatant.

Things are different everywhere and why I stated where I was for comparison, laws are still in place for a reason NO matter how lax the (corrupt) officials may be at enforcing them. I have tons of empathy... it might be spread a little thin right now, with everything going on in the world.. What I suppose I don't have is a lot of tolerance for uhm, (well lets just leave it at that). Again I meant NO harm and only friendless and yes my close friends understand that my perspective and advice will be very blunt but ALWAYS (just my opinion with what little information IS available at the time) what I truly believe is in everyone's best interest.. I tried to share solutions... but definitely see how they could get lost in the gripe session.. and maybe refrain from replying to threads in the future if I can say ALL nice things. I can't fix the world anyways, NO matter how hard I keep trying!

Best wishes on your future adventures!

ETA: many of us respond to what we are passionate about and sometimes yes, emotionally. I happen to be passionate about breeding/hatching... and the law... being raised by dope fiend addicts... gives me deep resentment to those looking for and using loop holes or just doing things below the radar... Laws are there to protect us even when we can't see how.

 

[KirstKennedy]

Hi there, hope you are enjoying BYC!

Sorry for the situation YOU put yourself in..

Thanks "friend"

There are many alternatives to how this could have gone down. And in the US there is a law that states what percentage of eggs MUST be fertile to be sold as fertile eggs must be 85% fertile.... https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/ahfss/mpes/pdfs/Quick_Reference_Guide.pdf

9 out of 12 would only be 75%. However, lack of development at day 7 does not equal infertility... did you pop it open and look for the blastodisk/blastoderm or do any other kind of analysis?


If that's what you want or expect, you NEED to ask for it instead of expecting someone to respond in a way that you hope for. Folks aren't mind readers. We are all doing our best and we have other obligations to meet and things going on in our minds... a hatch rate of 9 (or 8).. SEEMS VERY acceptable to me... without offering more eggs that might be more roosters that you're already not sure what to do with... That's all you need is 3 more roosters! The hen determines gender in chickens... hers are obviously throwing lots of boys.

Why not just buy already hatched and sexed chicks? Why even get chickens JUST because you can get away with it? SMH But even then going and getting hatching eggs, knowing you would get not less than 50% males... why would you expect the breeder to solve YOUR issue? Most folks raise their roosters for meat. Give it away to someone else to raise for meat if you can't. And DON'T do hatching eggs or straight run chick without a PLAN in place for ALL the roosters. Count yourself lucky you got 2 females for that 70 CAD... I spent over $150 USD to end up with ONLY 3 (not perfect) cockerels and NO hens from hatching eggs once. Even when you CAN have chickens and roosters, it's still frustrating!


Try having another perspective... you spent funds on the WHOLE experience NOT just 2 pullet chicks. Aside from JUST getting the girls, you also had an adventure and I'm guessing you learned tons along the way. Too bad it didn't include that.. laws are in place for a reason EVEN if we don't agree with them.

Now if I were in the sellers shoes... I would't even have sold you those eggs... IF I KNEW you weren't allowed to have chickens. That's just putting animals in a place where they might be dumped by the person who didn't have a solid plan and I care more about my community than a measly $, but not everyone has that conviction... Or the thought process to be able to make truly helpful suggestions according to YOUR situation. I would suggest you start looking now to re home them to somewhere that either has the space and is allowed or where they can raise them until table time. If you have feed store posting boards or Craigslist farm and garden section are both great places to start.. Charge a fee to recoup some of your cost OR give them away in order to reduce your outlay and dealing with any future issues. Schooling isn't free in most locations but some lessons are worth every penny spent.

No, I do not offer my customers consolation prizes... None of them offer me consolation prizes if they get 100% hatch and fertility. Would you be sending her something extra if they all hatched, doubtful. I presume that anyone making the purchase has weighed their pros and cons and determined IF they can afford the risk.. I do my absolute best to provide the best product. I never presume folks are hurting financially and that a hatching egg purchase would be enough to make or break them and most folks buying seem to be even more well off than me. It cost money to produce eggs, to provide shelter, and keep the extra rooster for breeding instead of just hens. Folks who don't do it don't know the challenges we face as breeders which is much different than back yard multipliers. I KNOW my fertility rate, my hatch rates, and maybe even my actual hatch gender ratio according to breed. But I am an OCD perfectionist, with a NEED to know all the details... including reports back from ALL my patrons if possible. The price I ask for hatching eggs or birds IS the price that's FAIR to ME as a keeper to continue keeping them in a fashion that allows also offering to others at a fair market value. But to keep birds top quality includes test mating and raising out a LOT of birds including rooster to only choose the best of the best.. it's NOT a cheap en-devour, period... and comes with a whole host of challenges not faced by keepers of hen only flocks.

Anyways, please understand that how I have addressed you is the way I would address a friend I care about and not a stranger. So try not to take it as a personal attack, if possible as it isn't intended that way!

Given all the information so far... I would cut my losses and move forward calling it a valuable lesson, and maybe not buying from them again, at least not hatching eggs in YOUR situation. I would NOT be adding in 3 hatching eggs with more possible roosters. As far as I can tell the seller did NO wrong, despite not reacting as YOU hoped or expected.

Hope the 2 girls you got, are fantastic hens when they mature!

You might consider selling all of them for what you paid.. to someone who wants to breed them in the future and look to buying some pullets or pullet chicks instead of keeping these.

FWIW... hatching eggs from the hatcheries here are almost always a bumm deal IMO, here in the US... The eggs are often the same price as a chick but with no guarantee of hatch or gender... making the eggs ultimately higher cost than just getting pullet chicks in the first place.


Hope this helps with some ideas how to go forward at least.

What I learned was that no amount of friendly emoji's makes up for folks not wanting to hear the truth.. OR for that truth coming across as rude.. and expressing my frustration over all the laws being written for people who follow them NOT the ones who don't care was considered rude.

Why is that people always focus on certain things... like the flaming face instead of the hug or fingers crossed cheering them on???

I never said ugly things about you.. sorry it came off as too blatant.

Things are different everywhere and why I stated where I was for comparison, laws are still in place for a reason NO matter how lax the (corrupt) officials may be at enforcing them. I have tons of empathy... it might be spread a little thin right now, with everything going on in the world.. What I suppose I don't have is a lot of tolerance for uhm, (well lets just leave it at that). Again I meant NO harm and only friendless and yes my close friends understand that my perspective and advice will be very blunt but ALWAYS (just my opinion with what little information IS available at the time) what I truly believe is in everyone's best interest.. I tried to share solutions... but definitely see how they could get lost in the gripe session.. and maybe refrain from replying to threads in the future if I can say ALL nice things. I can't fix the world anyways, NO matter how hard I keep trying!

Best wishes on your future adventures!

ETA: many of us respond to what we are passionate about and sometimes yes, emotionally. I happen to be passionate about breeding/hatching... and the law... being raised by dope fiend addicts... gives me deep resentment to those looking for and using loop holes or just doing things below the radar... Laws are there to protect us even when we can't see how.

But I never asked for your input on laws or if I should even own chickens or if I should have just bought sexed chicks. I asked if people thought 3 unfertile eggs was fair for what I paid and if they thought I was right about the sexes of my chicks. You offered all kinds of unkind words that weren't at all necessary nor helpful since you havent a clue what the chicken situation here is like.
So many people use the excuse of being "blunt" or "passionate" for being unkind and in reality there was no reason for it.
If everyone in Canada followed the rules about chickens as stringently as you believe they should, hardly anyone would have them. There's only a handful of cities that officially allow them in the whole country. Also, we dont have feed stores that have the big bins of cheap chickens like the US. That doesnt exist here. It's the few hatcheries or the breeders you may or may not have locally. There's a lot more out in West Canada, sadly I'm thousands of miles from there. Anyways, I hope you don't turn a bunch of people off from this very informative, helpful page with your "passion". Chickens would suffer.

 

[GaryDean26]

Hi there, hope you are enjoying BYC!

Sorry for the situation YOU put yourself in..

There are many alternatives to how this could have gone down......

Best post I have read on BYC in years. You coverd all the bases.