***Crevecoeur Thread***

[rambob59]

You're awesome! Thanks

 

[Sylvester017]

DON'T GET LEGHORNS! Mine are total hogs. There dirty, ugly, peck all of my other chickens, will fight over the food even if they're the only ones there, and even will attack me. They're also louder then my polish who are pretty loud, plus they're super flighty and hard to catch.

How funny to read your experience with Leghorns. On my folks' farm we always had from 25-50 at a time and they never went outside an established perimeter on the property and we used hand signals to herd them back to the pens when we needed to secure them - intelligent Babcock Leghorns. Today mine are great foragers, easy on the feed, but just as any other chicken breed LUV the treats and very quick to pick their favourite stuff immediately. They are alert, graceful, ours are tame, eat out of our hand, come when called by name, understand simple voice or hand signals, wonderful creatures of habit that know we want them to go into their coop to shut the door while the gardener starts up his mower. They respect a 2' rabbit fence barrier around our veggie garden and patio even though they can fly 4 and 5 feet high into the air. They' ve never left the yard, teach the newer additions to the flock what the "rules" and parameters are around the yard so don't force themselves into the veggie garden, and we've never lost one to a predator. In fact, our White Leg loved to chase cats out of the yard and now the APA Ameraucana has caught on to the fun activity!

As far as loudness goes, our Legs are no louder or quieter than any other egg song breed. In our case our Black Silkie is the loudest egg layer we have as she starts squawking early morning until she lays and squawks another hour afterwards. Our Ameraucana alerts the whole neighborhood when she lays and when she spooks (often) she lets out LOUD yelps. The White Leg is not a squawker and because she's alert just dives for cover. She leaves it up to the Silkie and Ameraucana to wear themselves out squawking - ha! The Leg only squawks just before laying and about 5 or 10 mins after and that's all. Legs are quite the low-tone conversationalists with you when you talk to them. Something to remember is that their big floppy comb obstructs some vision and causes them to be skittish because of this so we've learned to speak low and move slow if behind them. We also have a Buff Leghorn whose comb is smaller so she has excellent vision and has a much calmer temperament with no vision problem.

We don't chase our chickens to catch them. We call them or offer treats or wait until roost time to remove them for health inspections or treatments. Now hens are what we have. Perhaps Leg roos are a different experience as roo temperaments can be all over the board from super sweet to super mean.

 

[Sylvester017]

I have predator problems as well. Raccoons, those buggers! And hawks, crows will take out small birds, owls and if they get through the fence, coyotes. What is cute, is... well, I have my two big boys in the house on the weekends because we don't want to disturb our neighbors then, so they hang out with us in the house wearing diapers, and you should see the cat, dog, and birds all laying around on the couch, it's amazing! LOL

And the cat just killed a bunny out front again...... won't touch the birds though! Knows they're family I guess? The birds are too unaware that the cat is a threat (or the dog) so they don't act skittish around them, which keeps the killer instincts at bay with them. Still, we keep a close watch on all of them!

Anyway, so mine also have enclosed runs and hopefully safe coops that nothing can get into

First time I read anyone using diapers on their chickens. I made diapers in 3 sizes from Silkie juvenile size to adult Leghorn/Ameraucana size. Our Silkie was only 2 months old when we got her so she was in-house for 3 months wearing diapers - she had to be washed well every evening because of all the fluff feathers and blow-dried. We can handle her anywhere on her body today and ALL of our chicken breeds seem to enjoy the hairdryer on their washed butts when they need a little hygiene cleaning. The 3 month old Leghorn pullet didn't like the diaper but got used to it after a couple days. The APA Ameraucana 3 month old absolutely REFUSED to adapt to it. She either ran backwards in it when she stood up or just plopped down on the floor and refused to move - even to eat. We gave up after a week and just penned her in a 4'x4' kennel without a diaper til she was old enough to introduce to the outdoor girls. Of all the breeds we've had she was the most immature, kookiest, skittish breed we ever raised. But she's also the sweetest talkative girl we've ever had. Right now she's our best layer too right through winter and lays sometimes 7 eggs in a week poor girl! I'm so glad when she takes a day off!

 

[Sylvester017]

That's so cool. My neighbors would freak out, LOL, as we live in the 'burbs of Los Angeles, which is actually one humungous 'burb!! LOL Bouillon's diaper actually gets covered by his feathers really well! You can't really tell he is wearing it unless you see it poking out a bit at his bottom, LOL. Charlie is half his size, but they get along famously when they sleep together in the box or hang out all weekend together. Thank goodness this is all working out. I really wanted to keep my boys! Henny Penny is still pecking Bouillon when I put him back in the run in the mornings, but he is now bigger than her, and I keep telling him to smack her! LOL. He is #2 in the pecking order, but should be #1. Henny is not about to give up that position though

If Henny is a White Leghorn they don't easily give up their alpha position in the flock. My White ruled the flock with a gentle beak for nearly 3 years - until I changed the flock dynamics by adding 2 more pullets. When the Leg came out of her severe moult of 2 months she came back with a vengeance to re-establish her position but way too aggressively. We gave her a chance to settle down but by the 2nd week she was getting more unruly even towards her previously established flockmates - so sadly she was re-homed to an egg seller. I have 2-lb Silkies that can't defend themselves against aggressive LF in flock politics. We re-homed the 7-lb Marans who was fine for 6 months and then viciously attacked a 2-lb Silkie. The Marans was isolated and re-homed the next day! The Silkie was okay because I caught the incident immediately but I shudder to think if I wasn't there! No more heavy LF for us as long as we have the Silkies. The Buff Leghorn is smaller and calmer than the White Leg was and the Ameraucana isn't interested in flock politics and submits to her other flockmates.

I have been looking to replace my White Leg with another white egg-layer but with a calmer temperament and under 5-lb. All my backyard birds are under 5-lbs and gentle. I've been following the Breda, Polish, and Crevie threads for white egg-layers. Breda are great temperaments and smaller LF but are not consistently white egg layers but sometimes cream to tinted. Polish are another gentle breed but I'm not convinced it will be easy to deal with their crests. I read pages of posts about the difficulties those sweeties have with vision and since my flock free-ranges all day I don't want her spooked or predator bait. That took my research to the Crevies which seem a lot less vision impaired.

I PMd you - Smiles

 

[Sylvester017]

Would love to see a pic of your crev roo hanging out with the family furrballs!

Great pics of your birds, btw! Thanks for sharing. I would like to get crevs, but does anyone know how they do in a mixed flock. I know Polish birds are supposed to get picked on horribly and I hate to see anything terribly bullied (outside of the normal "pecking order.")

I don't know what kind of birds you're thinking of in a mixed flock. But here's my 2 cents - LOL.

I wished I had heeded the suggestions from owners when I was researching not to mix Silkies or bantams with LF. I thought a chicken is a chicken and the only experience I had before Silkies was my folks' farm of 25-50 Leghorns, and a pet New Hampshire for my kids when they were children. Then in retirement my DH and I decided to get a couple pet Silkies. Well chickens are addictive and we added a White Leghorn pullet which I had past experience with and who was a wonderful gentle flock leader for nearly 3 years. Then we added a Marans pullet who was fine for 6 months and then decided to go ballistic on a new POL Silkie. Well a 2-lb bantam doesn't have a fair chance against a 7-lb LF in flock politics and we re-homed the Marans who had decided to go after the gentle Leghorn too.

It was the Marans experience that made us realize we had to build our flock around the gentle Silkies - no more heavy LF breeds that can be tempted to bully/harm gentle smaller birds. The next two pullets added to the flock were a gentle Buff Leghorn and a Blue Wheaten Ameraucana. At this point it was a total of 5 birds. The White Leg went through a severe moult and when she came out of it she aggressively pursued re-establishing herself as alpha. She wouldn't have changed temperament if we hadn't changed the flock dynamics by adding new pullets. She became a real pill even against the older established Silkies so before she harmed them, we re-homed her to an egg seller. The remaining Buff Leg is calmer and smaller than the White Leg was and the Ameraucana submits to all her flockmates. No bird in the flock is over 5 LBs and the older Silkie hens are the alphas now. The LF submit to them. I like that kind of arrangement where the 2-lb Silkies are dominant and the LF are submissive and not interested in flock politics.

We no longer have our white egg layer so considered getting a gentle smaller LF like a Breda or Polish. However the Breda could lay cream or tinted eggs and not white. The Polish are sweet but skittish from such large crest feathers obstructing their vision - after reading several posts about trimming or tying up their crests decided it would not be conducive to our backyard free-range flock. That's when the Crevies interested me. They have crests but not with the vision obstruction of Polish breeds and are a gentle breed at around 5-LBs that layed white eggs. The Polish, like Silkies, are readily available and plentiful but Breda and Crevies are relatively rarer to find which means breeders are culling hard in those breeds. If I can save just one pullet from culling in a breeder's rare project I feel it helps the breeder not to have to waste an otherwise good PQ bird and maybe make a few dollars off it.

Re: your question about putting Polish in a mixed flock. Since they are a relatively smaller LF, gentle-tempered, and have some vision impairment causing skittishness, I personally would never consider mixing them in a flock of heavier LF like RIRs, NHRs, Javas, Jersey Giants, Orps, 'Lorps, Wyandottes, Marans, Brahmas, BRs, or flighty Mediterraneans, or wilder independent types like Fayoumis or Jaerhons. Polish need a calm environment rather than an environment where heavier or wilder-natured birds can be tempted to bully something gentler or smaller than themselves. No matter how gentle a heavy LF is reported to be, they will bully simply because the opportunity is there. If I had Polish I would limit myself to breeds under 5-LB with gentle calm temperaments. As much as I love Leghorns I would not put a White or Light Brown Leg in the mix but perhaps a calmer Leg variety like a Buff or Red Leg. Believe me, if you get a gentle Polish you do not want to go through what we went through with our Silkies. One breed we found that was kooky, spooky, and skittish yet ultimately a very gentle breed is the Blue Wheaten Ameraucana. My friend has one Wheaten Ameraucana and 3 Easter Eggers and she says they are kooky but the sweetest, most easily handled birds in her 15-hen flock of assorted egg-laying breeds. She has re-homed her larger breeds of Marans, OE, and BR because they were aggressive toward her gentler Leghorns, Ameraucana, and EEs.

Hope you didn't mind reading my 2 cents - LOL

 

[Sylvester017]

Chicken coops are so expensive, even when you build them yourself! I was lucky that my brother in law brought over lots of wood and used plywood. I still spent $200 on hardware cloth (because I wanted enclosed/safe runs) And then of course there is a lot of misc. expenditures, like buckets, hardware, etc... OMG, it was still expensive to build, and I did it myself.

But we have a lot of predators here. Most dangerous are hawks and raccoons. We also have coyotes, which can't, so far, get through our fence (knock on wood) and skunks, snakes, and I guess a cat could do damage, as well as dogs but again, dogs can't get into our backyard ATM. If your home is pretty safe, you might be able to get away with some chicken wire (way cheaper) and a simple box structure with one side open, just to keep out of the rain. They don't need much where it's pretty safe.

Yes, chicken housing can be expensive and it was for us. But you know what? Compared to getting a purebred dog at breeder's prices, with yearly licensing and vaccinations, vet bills/medicines/surgeries, housing/fencing, grooming expenses, toys, food, smelly poop patrol, burned urine lawns, and unwanted barking if owners are away - I consider the chicken investment way cheaper yearly in comparison. Plus the chicken fertilizer is gold for the garden and you get eggs in return for all that feed you give them - not to mention their entertainment factor. And have you ever heard a chicken bark all night like your neighbor's dog? The short times my chickens make any sounds is during the day when nearly the entire neighborhood is away at work or school!

 

[Sylvester017]

Since we live on the edge of the 'burbs, I've never seen bob cats or mountain lions here though they are in the neighboring hills. On the other side of the valley, they sometimes get black bears enjoying people's jacuzzis LOL. Yah, it's scary when they can get so close, especially when you have kids!

I don't know if there are problems with Creves and hardiness. People have written both sides, that they are strong, and that they are weak. I live in a very mild winter area, but very hot summer area. I think heat is harder on birds. Sure hope they do ok, I have tons of shade, and tried to pick the coolest spot in the yard to set my coops up. We shall see, as this will be my first summer with birds (I hatched my first birds last October) Anyway, yes, I do hope to get more eggs in April to hatch from exop. I really look forward to it!

Hummm, I'm not terribly worried about looks, LOL. That sounds like a great idea with the tin panels! Thanks for the idea!

Hi - I keep an independently standing Orbit Mister (ordered through Amazon but understand some big hardware store chains might also carry them). When temps get over 80 in So Calif we set up the free-standing mister on the back lawn and the birds will forage under the light mist when the days get really unbearable. We bought extra nozzles because we have hard water and the nozzles get crusty after a summer's useage. Yes, heat is probably worse on birds than cold. During the cold temps birds can huddle for warmth but in the summer they have no way to remove their feathers LOL. The big floppy combed Mediterranean breeds can take the heat better than the pea comb or non-existent comb breeds.

 

[Sylvester017]

they changed it from 3 to 1 in recent years. Had I started with the chickens 3 or 4 years ago, I could have been grandfathered in, but I just started. I really don't want neighbors angry either. I have them in the house ATM, we'll see if I can build something that works in here...? I've been keeping them in a box at night until 9:30 AM, then took them outside to be with the girls, except on weekends when I kept them in the house. I'm planning an in-house coop, with diaper'd roaming time, LOL.

You're lucky to have one! We aren't zoned for ANY roos but once in a great while we can hear a faint crowing from a few blocks away. I LUV it but wonder how they manage since we don't hear it all the time. My DH saw a bantam roo in someone's fenced front yard just foraging around by himself and not bothered by occasional sidewalk traffic or cars driving down the neighborhood street. I guess some neighbors are more tolerant than others - but heaven forbid - some neighbors get offended if you have to ask them to stop their dog from barking all night for hours at a time!

 

[Sylvester017]

Since red earlobes is one of the problems with our Crevecoeurs, I thought I'd post a very interesting article on earlobes that I just found:
http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/09E03A06.pdf

Unfortunately, it just reconfirms that it's difficult to figure out exactly what brings 'round red or white earlobes, LOL. There are probably several genes involved, making it complicated...

So far, from what I've read, it seems that crossing the darkest red to darkest red is your best bet to increase the red in the earlobes. Of course, then you have size and other issues to deal with. I'd love to hear whatever any of you think, but for me, I think the way I'll have to go about bettering these birds I have is:

1. select for size and type. Mine so far are so darn small, I need to increase size badly! However, I want to keep type, or shape at the top along with size. As an example, I think my boy's legs are a bit too long.

2. select for ear color. I think the ear color will be such a long process that it must be up there from the beginning in order to allow for as many generations as possible to improve it.

3. a close 2nd to #2 will be to keep the crest beard and muffs as full as possible. I'm not interested in making polish like crests though, to me, it should sleek back a bit for the boys, but be fuller than what my boy has, and more compact, globular and clearing the eyes for my hens. I think my hen has good type except her ear is pretty white, she's pretty darn small and her crest has been pecked at a bit, lol. Nice short legs though, but one tail feather with a white tip. My boy's beard and muff and crest could really be fuller.

4. Last thing will be for combs. They're supposed to be the easiest thing to fix, so I'm not even going to look at them until I get somewhere with the other stuff.

I can't wait to get eggs from exop and see what hatches! I guess it gives me a year from now, minimum before I get to start making any choices in breeding as it is. I may not use any of my birds (currently have 3 chicks with my other two). They probably won't be good enough, but you never know?? I might need something like Bouillion's nice black feathers, and Belina is also all black except that fingernail like white tip on one tail feather, LOL. So they may be useful in the end??

I have read some of Danne Honour's articles about what to breed for first, second, etc. His specialty is Buff Minorcas and Buff Leghorns but the principles are about the same as to what order you breed for first and then what to breed for next etc. In Buff Leghorns he was getting tinted rather than white eggs. Getting the white eggs was the last of his worries although now he says he has finally got his Buffs to lay white. Most of his posts are under the Buff Leghorn BYC thread although I've seen him post on other Leghorn variety BYC threads too. Some of his Buff Leghorns are pictured on Feathersite.com. I got a couple pullets of his Buff Leg line indirectly from a breeder who bought stock from him. He's been breeding for at least 30 years and has written several articles and been in poultry magazines so he knows his stuff!

 

[Sylvester017]

I'm hoping to be able to jump in on this thread and get some feedback on the rooster I just picked up today. I was told he is a Crevecoeur but I have my doubts. He was free so I didn't worry about it. I've read how rare they are and also that the black polish roosters can look VERY similar.
Here's a pic of him.






He looks terrible right now with his wings clipped but I won't be doing that to him...

See my next post too for another photo.

A Creve for FREE! I would grab him, run, and ask questions later! They are SO rare no matter what little flaws you can nitpick about - he is wonderful!