***Crevecoeur Thread***
- Thread starter chicken boy sam
- Start date
alexisrambles
Songster
I've got a few Creves from McMurray but two of my girls are built more like polish so far. It's probably going to take a year or two to breed to standard. Speaking of, anyone have a good link to what's the standard for Creves?
PS- these kiddos are something like 14-15 weeks!
PS- these kiddos are something like 14-15 weeks!
I wish you good luck with them. Mine were really not hardy.
Dinosauer
In the Brooder
- Sep 14, 2019
- 14
- 26
- 39
Hello! I m a breeder of the Crèvecoeur from Europe, Germany. I just come up with my YouTube Channel where I presend topics for breeding and keeping chicken. Today I released my first english Video. You can see every color breed of mine in pictures and videos. If you like me to make more of it in english, please let me know.
You can search for it with: Crowing hen Dinosauer
https://youtu.be/moEeb-jPMzI
You can search for it with: Crowing hen Dinosauer
https://youtu.be/moEeb-jPMzI
Really enjoyed your youtube video!!! So glad to see the very lovely Crevecoeur is doing so well in Europe -- sadly they seem a bit less hardy in the USA.
3
333113
Guest
Sylvester017, do you actually have Crevecoeurs?
Edited to ask, in what way do you think they are not as "hardy" in the USA?
Edited to ask, in what way do you think they are not as "hardy" in the USA?
Last edited by a moderator:
3
333113
Guest
Take a look at Jeannette Beranger's Crevecoeur Project for the Livestock Conservancy on Facebook for a serious discussion of the Crevecoeur standard. I have had Crevecoeurs since 1997, derived from Murray McMurray stock, which was a lot closer then to the real Crevecoeur type than they are now. I agree that they are now smaller and more like Polish type.
A lot of people think that Crevecoeurs and black Polish look alike and have mixed them accordingly. Crevecoeurs are large, big-breasted birds who were originally raised for their fine meat qualities (short fibers = tender meat). Even the APA (American Poultry Association) acknowledges this difference: the Crevecoeur roo should be 8 pounds, hen 6-1/2 pounds; the Polish (including black) roo should be 6 pounds, the hen 4-1/2 pounds.
Now that we know more about the DNA of chickens, we know that at least all the crested birds tested, which include Crevecoeurs, Polish, and Sultans, share the DNA that causes their crests. So, that will _not_ be a difference between crested breeds based only on the crest. IMHO, if a crested breed does not have a full crest, they have been cross-bred with a breed that does not have a crest.
A standard for Crevecoeurs was established by the American Poultry Association (APA) in 1874. HOWEVER, it does NOT match the French or other European standards for Crevecoeurs, in that the APA standard calls for red earlobes, as opposed to white earlobes for the European standards. Note that most APA breeds that have red earlobes have brown eggs, and most APA breeds with white earlobes have white eggs. The Crevecoeurs have always had white eggs, so logic would suggest that they would have white earlobes.
My presumption is that the early American poultry wars (and oh my gosh it was just that, a marketing war to put certain birds and certain eggs on the American table) made it more difficult for the Crevecoeur to compete. Crevecoeurs in Europe always had white earlobes and laid white eggs; it would take a big effort to breed Crevecoeurs to a standard with red earlobes and also white eggs. Thankfully (and probably unbeknownst to people in that period of time) the genetics of earlobe color and the genetics of egg color are not linked. So it was not as difficult as the marketers anticipated to change Crevecoeurs to the "right" red earlobe color, even if it was a superficial and silly change. But, by then, most production layers were not Crevecoeurs.
Let me say, too, that Crevecoeurs have tender meat and white skin. Marketing in the early part of the 20th century led people to believe that yellow skin was healthier. So, Americans were cheated out of better-tasting, more tender chicken by marketers who sold the yellow-skinned chicken as a better choice. On the meat side, the marketing focused on having yellow skin, something not readily achieved by Crevecoeur breeders. So, unfortunately, the American public was denied the tender, flavorful meat of the Crevecoeurs, and instead had to make do with chicken that was surrounded by yellow skin, and fat.
Sadly, the APA does not share their standard openly, and as a life member of the APA I want to honor that commitment. But, as I have told several past APA presidents, I think this is a mistake. The ABA (American Bantam Association) shares their standard with the world. I strongly believe that this has been a main cause of the commitment of new breeders to the ABA standards. I wish that the APA would see things the same way.
A lot of people think that Crevecoeurs and black Polish look alike and have mixed them accordingly. Crevecoeurs are large, big-breasted birds who were originally raised for their fine meat qualities (short fibers = tender meat). Even the APA (American Poultry Association) acknowledges this difference: the Crevecoeur roo should be 8 pounds, hen 6-1/2 pounds; the Polish (including black) roo should be 6 pounds, the hen 4-1/2 pounds.
Now that we know more about the DNA of chickens, we know that at least all the crested birds tested, which include Crevecoeurs, Polish, and Sultans, share the DNA that causes their crests. So, that will _not_ be a difference between crested breeds based only on the crest. IMHO, if a crested breed does not have a full crest, they have been cross-bred with a breed that does not have a crest.
A standard for Crevecoeurs was established by the American Poultry Association (APA) in 1874. HOWEVER, it does NOT match the French or other European standards for Crevecoeurs, in that the APA standard calls for red earlobes, as opposed to white earlobes for the European standards. Note that most APA breeds that have red earlobes have brown eggs, and most APA breeds with white earlobes have white eggs. The Crevecoeurs have always had white eggs, so logic would suggest that they would have white earlobes.
My presumption is that the early American poultry wars (and oh my gosh it was just that, a marketing war to put certain birds and certain eggs on the American table) made it more difficult for the Crevecoeur to compete. Crevecoeurs in Europe always had white earlobes and laid white eggs; it would take a big effort to breed Crevecoeurs to a standard with red earlobes and also white eggs. Thankfully (and probably unbeknownst to people in that period of time) the genetics of earlobe color and the genetics of egg color are not linked. So it was not as difficult as the marketers anticipated to change Crevecoeurs to the "right" red earlobe color, even if it was a superficial and silly change. But, by then, most production layers were not Crevecoeurs.
Let me say, too, that Crevecoeurs have tender meat and white skin. Marketing in the early part of the 20th century led people to believe that yellow skin was healthier. So, Americans were cheated out of better-tasting, more tender chicken by marketers who sold the yellow-skinned chicken as a better choice. On the meat side, the marketing focused on having yellow skin, something not readily achieved by Crevecoeur breeders. So, unfortunately, the American public was denied the tender, flavorful meat of the Crevecoeurs, and instead had to make do with chicken that was surrounded by yellow skin, and fat.
Sadly, the APA does not share their standard openly, and as a life member of the APA I want to honor that commitment. But, as I have told several past APA presidents, I think this is a mistake. The ABA (American Bantam Association) shares their standard with the world. I strongly believe that this has been a main cause of the commitment of new breeders to the ABA standards. I wish that the APA would see things the same way.
Dinosauer
In the Brooder
- Sep 14, 2019
- 14
- 26
- 39
Hello there. Info from Europe: The European / german Standard does NOT call for any kind of earlobes Color. "We" determined that for the earlobes the Color is frivolous because it is hidden and not seen anyway.
If your Polish correspond to the german "Paduaner" then they are quite close to the Crevecoeur. But the Crevecoeur are bigger, heavier, lay some more eggs, the Crests are a bit smaler and the most obvious thing is that the Paduaner / Polish are missing the V-comb of the Crevecoeur.
If your Polish correspond to the german "Paduaner" then they are quite close to the Crevecoeur. But the Crevecoeur are bigger, heavier, lay some more eggs, the Crests are a bit smaler and the most obvious thing is that the Paduaner / Polish are missing the V-comb of the Crevecoeur.
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