Crime: Why does anyone even bother?

[redhen]

Quote:

Gee, imagine that. Punishment actually feels like punishment.

Yep..This country has become so PC, that we are made to feel BAD for punishing the people who CHOOSE to commit crimes aginast us...
Somethings wrong with that...

 

[chickaddict]

Quote:
If it turns out to be true that diet effects the crime rate.


We should be using the information and monetary funds to improve the dietary needs of the elementary school children in an attempt to improve the future.
Not to Improve the meals of ADULTS THAT HAVE ALREADY RUINED THEIRS.

To say "ruined", means that they are beyond rehabilitation? the point of prisons, at least originally, is to rehabilitate the people into productive citizens, and for some i works, for some it doesn't. " Many of these people who made these mistakes are ruined only by people unwilling to give them the skills, chances and tools to remake themselves. Just look a Judge Greg Maths. He went from gang banger to lawyer to judge.
Shouldn't we as a society make every effort to encourage those who have made a mistake pay their dues and re-enter society as productive citizens? Who here has not made a terrible mistake or a bad move, maybe in our youth, that if it had gone wrong would have landed us in the same stigmatized part of society?

The original point of prisons was never rehabilitation - prisons were created as a place to put individules who have proven (by their own actions) that they needed to be removed from society for the safety of that society.
Prisoners in this country have more rights and comforts than in any other country in the world. In many countries that 6by6 cell would house a family of 5. In this state there are many, many different programs (including free college education) that are available to inmates. Whether they are rehabilitated or not is entirely their choice.

My whole point is - More than enough of my tax dollars are contributing to the welfare and defense attourneys of the criminals currently in the system. I would be a little more than livid if I found out that the state was increasing the funds to improve prison meals when the poverty level among elementary aged children is staggering.

My SIL went to jail on a drug charge. She came out complaining that every single day she was in there they were given a bologna sandwich for lunch. That alone was more than enough incentive for her to make sure she never went back.

Prisoners and criminals have rights.

But I have been a victim, and you know what rights I have as a victim?
I have the right to watch a percentage of my hard earned paycheck pay for their attourney - their court appointed psychiatrist - their medical bills - their medications - their dental work - their clothing - and their food. I also get to pay for their college education and just for a kick in the head I get to pay for an exercise room.

If we are going to improve anybodies diet - lets get to the children and prevent them from becoming criminals in the first place.

 

[Robo]

Quote:

Gee, imagine that. Punishment actually feels like punishment.

Yep..This country has become so PC, that we are made to feel BAD for punishing the people who CHOOSE to commit crimes aginast us...
Somethings wrong with that... https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/10638_snapoutofit.gif

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[noodleroo]

Quote:
Prisons are for punishment. At least in Texas they are. There are two types of state prison in Texas; state jail and the Institutional Division (ID). State jail is for those convicted of the more non-violent crimes. Problem is, sometimes people who also do very violent crimes get caught for the non-violent ones and go there so it is just as expensive and dangerous for everyone. Prison is for punishment. Probation or 'community supervision' as it is called these days is for 'helping' felons stay in the 'community' and try to get their lives back on track. I've seen many defendants turn down probation because it included drug treatment and they didn't want it. They just wanted to do their time and be done with it.

Juvenile offenders (kids that commit felonies) are handled under the Texas Family Code; it is a civil process to 'help' them. It is not about punishment, just reform.

One bright note you might like to know is that a court appointed attorney (for felonies in Texas) is not really free. They can have an attorney appointed if they can't afford to hire one, but if they plead guilty or are found guilty, the attorney fees are assessed as court costs and they have to be paid back. If they go to ID, I prepare a withholding order for the judge to sign that takes money out of their prison trust funds to start paying back their court costs. I send a letter to their parole officer when they get out on parole to make sure they come in and make a payment arraingement to pay off the rest. You'd be surprised; it works pretty well.

 

[backyardturkey]

Quote:
Prisons are for punishment. At least in Texas they are. There are two types of state prison in Texas; state jail and the Institutional Division (ID). State jail is for those convicted of the more non-violent crimes. Problem is, sometimes people who also do very violent crimes get caught for the non-violent ones and go there so it is just as expensive and dangerous for everyone. Prison is for punishment. Probation or 'community supervision' as it is called these days is for 'helping' felons stay in the 'community' and try to get their lives back on track. I've seen many defendants turn down probation because it included drug treatment and they didn't want it. They just wanted to do their time and be done with it.

Juvenile offenders (kids that commit felonies) are handled under the Texas Family Code; it is a civil process to 'help' them. It is not about punishment, just reform.

One bright note you might like to know is that a court appointed attorney (for felonies in Texas) is not really free. They can have an attorney appointed if they can't afford to hire one, but if they plead guilty or are found guilty, the attorney fees are assessed as court costs and they have to be paid back. If they go to ID, I prepare a withholding order for the judge to sign that takes money out of their prison trust funds to start paying back their court costs. I send a letter to their parole officer when they get out on parole to make sure they come in and make a payment arraingement to pay off the rest. You'd be surprised; it works pretty well.

Prisons are for protecting non-douchebag citizens.

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
To say "ruined", means that they are beyond rehabilitation? the point of prisons, at least originally, is to rehabilitate the people into productive citizens, and for some i works, for some it doesn't. " Many of these people who made these mistakes are ruined only by people unwilling to give them the skills, chances and tools to remake themselves. Just look a Judge Greg Maths. He went from gang banger to lawyer to judge.
Shouldn't we as a society make every effort to encourage those who have made a mistake pay their dues and re-enter society as productive citizens? Who here has not made a terrible mistake or a bad move, maybe in our youth, that if it had gone wrong would have landed us in the same stigmatized part of society?

The original point of prisons was never rehabilitation - prisons were created as a place to put individules who have proven (by their own actions) that they needed to be removed from society for the safety of that society.
Prisoners in this country have more rights and comforts than in any other country in the world. In many countries that 6by6 cell would house a family of 5. In this state there are many, many different programs (including free college education) that are available to inmates. Whether they are rehabilitated or not is entirely their choice.

My whole point is - More than enough of my tax dollars are contributing to the welfare and defense attourneys of the criminals currently in the system. I would be a little more than livid if I found out that the state was increasing the funds to improve prison meals when the poverty level among elementary aged children is staggering.

My SIL went to jail on a drug charge. She came out complaining that every single day she was in there they were given a bologna sandwich for lunch. That alone was more than enough incentive for her to make sure she never went back.

Prisoners and criminals have rights.

But I have been a victim, and you know what rights I have as a victim?
I have the right to watch a percentage of my hard earned paycheck pay for their attourney - their court appointed psychiatrist - their medical bills - their medications - their dental work - their clothing - and their food. I also get to pay for their college education and just for a kick in the head I get to pay for an exercise room.

If we are going to improve anybodies diet - lets get to the children and prevent them from becoming criminals in the first place.

i have been a victim as well,. it doesn't change my sense of compassion and my unwillingness to completely write off someone because of a minor to moderate crime.

 

[Tala]

Quote:
Someone who got "let off" (given some kind of prison credit....don't fully understand that, but needless to say, he was back on the street instead of in jail) threw bleach in the face of a pizza delivery driver last week, the driver is still blinded - waiting to see how permanent it is going to be.
Had the guy been in jail for his previous charges, it wouldn't have happened at all.

I am 100% willing to write someone off for a "minor to moderate" crime, so that they don't hurt someone else next week.

 

[Ridgerunner]

A recent study showed that Arkansas' prison costs will increase by a little over $1 billion dollars in the next ten years unless something changes. That is over $1 billion dollars of new additional tax money the citizens of this state will have to come up with. I expect Governor Beebe may address this soon. Some committee is studying it now.

There are different kinds of prisoners. You have the ones in county or city jails for a few days for pretty minor stuff or those awaiting trial. I don't think we are talking about most of these. You have people in minimum security type prisons for non-violent crimes. Then you have the people in maximum security prisons for pretty nasty stuff. Where they are does not depend on how nice they play. It depends on what they have been convicted of. And it depends on the judgment of people. Sometimes people make mistakes.

In my opinion, I want to put the nasty violent people in prison and keep them there, not so much as punishment (though I have nothing against consequences for actions) but to protect the rest of us from people like that. I think the three strikes law helps with that. Some people are beyond help and should just be kept away from the rest of us. But you have to commit the crime before you can be punished for it.

You have a lot of people in prison that are not a huge threat to the rest of us. There is hope that when they get out, they will become productive tax-paying citizens and not commit further crimes. For these, I think the prison system should be about rehabilitation. (Punishment too. I do believe in consequences for your actions.) The same thing does not work for everybody. The threat of a bologna sandwich every day would probably be sufficient for my wife, but I ate a lot of bologna growing up. Eating a bologna sandwich every day would probably not be that big of an incentive for me. Other things would.

Some of us do the right thing because we have an internal moral compass where we just do the right thing. Some do the right thing because they are worried about the consequences, prison, fines, peer pressure, whatever. Some do the right thing because they are afraid they will burn later. And some don't do the right thing because they are not worried about the consequences or they just don't think of the consequences. Some of these people can't be helped. Some can.

Most of us have friends or relatives that have spent time in jail or have been there ourselves. My uncle spent three months in county jail for moonshining. In the1930's moonshining was not all that unusual in the hills of Tennessee. He is still alive and is a solid, respected citizen, community leader, and church leader. Just because someone has been to prison does not necessarily make them a bad person the rest of their lives. It is not a good sign, just not always all that bad.

Tala, I have not read about that case, but I would guess that person was held in jail awaiting trial and that time in jail awaiting trial was the prison credit he received. That guy sure sounds like a mental case, which is another category.

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:

Gee, imagine that. Punishment actually feels like punishment.

Yep..This country has become so PC, that we are made to feel BAD for punishing the people who CHOOSE to commit crimes aginast us...
Somethings wrong with that... https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/10638_snapoutofit.gif

What is your definition of PC?

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
Someone who got "let off" (given some kind of prison credit....don't fully understand that, but needless to say, he was back on the street instead of in jail) threw bleach in the face of a pizza delivery driver last week, the driver is still blinded - waiting to see how permanent it is going to be.
Had the guy been in jail for his previous charges, it wouldn't have happened at all.

I am 100% willing to write someone off for a "minor to moderate" crime, so that they don't hurt someone else next week.

That to me is not a moderate crime. I believe things should be judged basis by basis. The punishment should fit the crime including a person's re-entrance into society.