crop issue, loosing weight, and runny pooh

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I have hay in the nest box and I think they play around with it and probably eat some. Were your birds broody when they were eating the hay or do you know why they ate it? One new layer I have seems to have a large squishy crop. I will check tomorrow to see if it emptied out. Should I replace the hay with shavings? thanks for your help.

I do believe both were broody birds and ate the hay instead of leaving the nest box. They've always had hay in the nest boxes and even in corners of their coops and no one else has ever eaten it and I have 200-300 birds at any point in time.
 
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I don't know what more I can tell you. Did you read my post above - did you check out the link? It sounds like crop surgery will be necessary.
 
I did read the post and check out the link, but I do not feel I can do crop surgery. I am blind and myu husband would probably be willing to do it later tonight. But, I feel we can do the super glue fasten up, but I do not know about sewing, I am not sure what to use to sew, nor are either of us any good a mending or other sewing tasks. I was really hoping for a non-surgical solution.

She does not want the yogurt. She does love the apple sauce, I think I am going to cook her an egg just so she is getting nutrition. She finished the acv water, well at least she spilled the waterer. So, now I have put electrolites in the water for some extra support.

Beth
 
You can use a regular needle and thread to sew them up and you don't have to remove stitches, they will eventually dissolve on their own. You also don't have to be very good at sewing, I'm not. You can just make loop de loops all the way down the incision to hold it together. Do get someone to help you if you have vision problems - maybe someone you know sews. Or, you can make individual stitches by just going through each side, pulling it together, and tying with a knot. Then skip a bit and make another one.

You can try alternative methods, especially if she will still eat. But if she can't absorb anything because it can't pass through the crop, she will eventually starve to death even with a full crop. The real indicator is watery poop means no nutrients/food in it. If she's already skin and bones, she won't last very long if the crop is impacted. Of course, you can/should keep trying the massage to see if it will break up on its own.

Best of luck in whatever you do - it's always hard to make a decision especially if it involves surgery but I've found the surgeries are really easy, pretty fast treatment, and they are almost immediately better.
 
Ruth: not sure whether you will check back, but I will post the current status of this situation. The weekend came and our vet was not available, the local stores had no sutures so I kept feeding her apple sauce with pro-biotic in it because she began to refuse the yogurt. We gave her scrambled egg every day. also, we put a small bowl of olive oil in her box and she drank that pretty well on her own. In fact we woke to her crop feeling very much larger and more watery and I felt no solids. I messaged it and hoped it could now pass. But, by night, Sunday the crop had shrunk back to the gulf ball size and was again firm like play dough. She continued to have runny pooh with little to no solids. it looked like she had lost about 1/2 LBS which is a lot considering she was down to 4 LBS when I brought her in last Wednesday, that is a big percentage. So, Monday I called the vet who willingly sold me silk sutures with a back cutting, curved needle, they are not dissolving, so I hope that will be fine. By today, she ate the egg this morning but refused the apple sauce. We had been alternating ACV and electrolyte water every other day. It looked like she was not drinking much. It is a little hard to tell how much because she kept knocking over the waterer. So, we gathered up surgical gloves, betadine, scalpel, saline wash to rinse the crop after opening it. We had hemostats and tweezers. I wrapped her in a towel, laid her on her side on a "blue pad", covered her head and we began the surgery process. My husband is a hunter so had no problem cutting her except he did not want to make me cry or hurt our beloved pet. This one is actually "his" chicken. So, she did squawk a bit and kick at the first cut but she calmed quickly. He got into the crop and began pulling out green strands we believe to be grass. Some were as much as 5 or more inches. the weird thing is that we live in MI and the grass has not grown in more that a month and there is no long grass in our yard. . We could see the scrambled egg, and some leaves in the stuff he pulled out. The liquid was very little and clear. There was no smell to what we pulled out. We only rinsed the crop at the incision point as I feared filling it and it backing up in to her airway. We put more betadine at the opening and sutured her up. We did not find a way to get that thin between layer and hope that will not cause any problems. We closed her up. Boy, the skin is some tough stuff and with out the back cutting curved needle it wold have been quite difficult. We again cleaned the wound opening. Used an alcohol wipe to clean the feathers around the area from blood. She did bleed, but not more than one would expect. She got up easily and clucked a calm type cluck at us. She jumped off the table and walked to the kitchen and right to my husband who had done the surgery. We gave her a pinch of shreded cheese which she ate happily and then wanted to go forage around the kitchen floor, but we stopped her from that. We changed the box materials, gave her new electrolyte water and she pecked around in the box and went to roost. She did seem to pass more watery pooh. She seems a little wobbly, but cheerful enough. We are thankful for all your information. We felt a bit shakey doing this but felt that she would either die from an infection or from starvation. We could not afford to take her to an avien vet, and she did not have enough meat on her to cull her for food, and we did not want to needlessly kill our pet. So, the surgery seemed like the only option. We pray it will help and she will be back to herself soon. Her comb and waddles are still read, she is strong enough to walk on her own, she is inside where we can watch her, we feel positive about what we have done for her and we leave her in God's hands to heel well. I am not sure what the next step is. Maybe we will give her some egg tomorrow afternoon. I will give her the polyvisol vitamins, although I find it hard to get them to take them as they taste nasty. I will keep her calm and warm. I guess we will see what is next. I would not want to do this often as it is difficult and a bit stressful, but if it works and our little friend is made better, it will have been definitely worth it. Thank you for your help, and I am open to any other suggestions to help her recover successfully.
 
Good job on taking on the surgery. Tinned salmon or tuna is packed with nutrients and protien and mine will kill for it.

If the crop did not seam to have a problem it's self the blockage may be further down. If it blocks back up I might be inclinded to think worms. That was the case for one of my birds that displayed the same symptoms. After worming she bounced back in a couple days and has packed on weight since.
 
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Congrats on doing a great job. It sounds like you did everything correctly. Did you find the mass of stuff and did you check the crop to be sure you got everything out and flush it out? In the cases I operated on the ball/mass of stuff was way down in the crop. I had to reach my finger in the crop and swirl it around to feel if I got everything. You won't get fluid in her airway by flushing the crop. As you saw, it is very tough and slippery. The non-dissolvable sutures should be fine. Regular needle and thread will also work but as you saw, those cutting needles are great. My vet actually gave me an entire box of cutting needles with dissolvable sutures since they were "expired". She will readily sell me anything I need as far as suppies or medicines - what she will NOT do is see a chicken as a patient. She readily tells me she knows NOTHING about chickens and actually calls me if she has someone needing help.

If you got the blockage out, the crop should feel flat and empty. If you still feel a ball/mass - it's best to open her up before she heals and clean it out.

They are amazing creatures and as you saw, they will jump up from an operating table and walk around the room and gobble up anything you feed them. However, just give her very soft foods for a few days - scrambled eggs and yogurt are good. No pellets or scratch. Also just feed her a tiny bit at a time so that she doesn't gorge herself and fill up the crop.

Great job - I'm sure she will do well now.
 
Hey there, I am dealing with this too... Here's a link to my thread
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=416142
Hopefully
our girls make it through!
Thanks alot to all the knowledgable BYC'ers
I will try surgery in a few days if it doesnt get better.
Acv confuses me is it good or no?
Is there a detailed sticky or summary on sour crop somewhere?
Be Well, Wisco
 
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Ruth: I am not so encouraged this late morning. The crop seemed to flatten out when we cleaned it out. The hole was not big enough to ge my husband's finger in there, but he scooped it out with the hemostats and was not getting anything else. He was thinking that swelling may be the cause of the crop feeling firmand still a bit ball-like this morning. I think we did not get it all. There is no pooh that we can see in the box, but we could not see the runny pooh as the litter absorbs it. She did drink last night, but have not seen her do it today. We gave her a tablespoon of scrambled egg which she ate well. But, her behavior has me concerned. She seems a bit wobbley, one foot keeps dragging a bit when she walks especially if she goes fast or is on the wood floor, but it does happen in the litter too. She does not cluck when we come near the box, which she has every other time. She seems a bit lighter and the scale reflects a few ounces lost over night but that may just be in what we removed. I wold say we got out a 1/4 cup or so. We have no more suture material, the vet sold us one pack, she is in tonight so we may try to get somemore and open her up again tonight, but we feel sad.

I was wondering about the molasis water treatment and if it would help flush any remaining material and possibly get rid of any infection that was caused by the back-up of material. Do you know if this would be good or not? Do you know what might be causing the dragging leg, lack of activity? What would be best to do at this point?
 
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If you didn't make an incision in the crop large enough to get your finger in you may not have gotten the "ball" of stuff out. In the cases I had, the hay was a tight mass of balled up stuff and no, there's no way it would have flushed out with ACV or molasses or anything else - it had to be pulled out. I doubt you're feeling swelling - at least I never did. She's probably weak from not being able to absorb nutrients which is really what kills them. They eat but it can't pass from their crop.

If you have to reopen her, make the incision large enough to get your finger in there and also fill it with fluid and slosh it around. It's like an empty water balloon - you can even turn it inside out (not that you want to). Use your finger to reach in and feel all around - especially near the bottom of the crop where it would normally pass through on its way to the gizzard. That's where it can clog up. You can use regular needle and thread. Regular thread would actually be better on the crop than the nondissolvable sutures which are sort of like fishing line. The regular needle is a little harder to use but will work. I stitch it up one side and down the other so it's nice and tight and there's no gaps for fluid to escape. It's very muscular and will naturally want to draw closed even while you're trying to clean it out. Did you suture the outside skin also? If not, you should and regular thread works great there as well. In that case, you can make a few simple tie knots to hold the gap closed.
 

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