Crop keeps refilling after surgery!

[khind]

My 6 -7 year old hen Buffy had a HUGE impacted crop. I finally found a vet to do surgery on May 1st.
Diet: Yogurt and scrambled egg for about a week afterwards. Crumble planned next, but no rock/grit for 10 days.
Rx'd: Reglan (at my request, in case she had crop statis), Metacam, and anti-fungal, and an antibiotic.

Crop started growing again a few days after surgery. I put a crop bra on her but then, within 4 days, it was Big. So...
Diet: Now only soft/liquid foods (I fed baby food, adding a little Poultry Cell a few days/wk).
But crop still grew more. She was stooling though, and it felt to us like the crop was full of air, so...
Rx'd: Simethicone (Gas-X) 2x/day; and a very strong solution of Baking soda 2x/day, hoping to right things by changing the pH. After 2 doses of Baking soda, no change - the crop still grew, and Buffy was now pounding water like there was no tomorrow. So we stopped. Also, increased Reglan to 3x/day instead of just 2. I did that on the days I could; with work, it was hard to keep up the 3rd dose every day.
Between 1 1/2 & 2 weeks after surgery - her crop now had a hole near the stitches, with food and water coming out!

The vet re-emptied her crop, flushed it, and re-stitched it on the 2-week date. Stopped the simethicone, as we now knew there was in fact food in the crop, not just air.

So... started over again:
Diet: liquid/soft food for 7 days while watching.
Crop started growing after a couple days. Within 4-5 days, it was Big again.
Rx: Reglan was just used up. Vet didn't want to refill it; he wanted to see what her body might be able to achieve on its own.
Crop bra revision: I tried to make a tighter crop bra from a tube sock to see if it would help, but I had the hardest time getting it on her without feeling like I was going to break her wings, so I had to give up (I used the written descriptions I could find here in this forum). So I put on what I thought was a tight crop bra, made of Vetwrap and Ace bandage, overnight, but in the a.m. her crop had not come down. Did this again the next night - same result. I didn't leave it on during the day because once she was awake she always found a way to pick at the knots and loosen it. So the original, looser bra stayed on during the day instead.

All the while, Buffy's comb color, personality, appetite, stool output, and energy have all been really good. Go figure!

After 1 1/2 weeks of the 2nd clean-out and stitch-up (this morning), Buffy's crop again had food leaked out near the stitches! So after work, I ran her back to the vet. He was stumped (still).
The hole was very small compared to the last time, so he simply put staples in near the stitches. He said every time he's done a crop surgery, the crop goes back to normal, so he's not familiar with this...
Rx: Antibiotic, to see if that would help. Check back in 5 days.

But a couple hours after we got home, suddenly food was leaking out of Buffy's crop near the staples!

So she'll be heading back there again first thing in the morning! Yet I know that he will be at a loss for what to do next.

Any insights or experience anyone has on this kind of situation, I would REALLY appreciate! Again, Buffy looks and acts great otherwise. But this is not sustainable. She can't even hang around outside on the driveway pad for more that a little while here and there with me, because she hasn't yet progressed to the stage that she can eat bugs or a random tiny rock she could easily find (let alone plants, or even dry crumble for that matter).

 

[SmiYa0126]

@azygous @Wyorp Rock @Eggcessive can you help?

From the articles I've read you should initially withhold food for 36 hours and then treat the condition.

Is she healthy enough to do that? How does her weight feel?

 

[Eggcessive]

I don’t have any experience with crop surgery. There are a lot of older threads about other’s experience.

 

[azygous]

Have you tried probiotics in tablet form? That often fixes the problems your hen is having. All the medication and antibiotics likely have depleted all the good crop and intestinal microbes, so they need replacing.

I would feed a probiotic tablet in the morning and evening, (twice a day) and offer soft foods like baby food, boiled rice with yogurt or buttermilk, applesauce, and Poultry Nutri-drench for necessary vitamins. I would even avoid regular chicken crumbles for several days as that's a rough substance. And offer many small meals with small amounts each time to avoid over-filling the crop, which is pulling at her sutures.

And you can encourage faster healing of the sutured tissues by spraying Vetericyn wound spray on the incision several times a day as it has an ingredient that speeds up new tissue growth. Avoid cleaning it with peroxide as that inhibits tissue growth.

 

[khind]

I REALLY appreciate all of you taking the time to read this saga!

(Don't miss the Insane Update** below!!)

Weight/Fasting: Buffy's very thin, very bony - has been for quite a while since all this started (I'm still mystified at her energy level and personality).
No she didn't fast for 36 hrs; no one suggested that. The vet who did the surgery guessed I should feed her pretty soon after her initial surgery; another vet in the office mused that I should probably "wait quite a while." However, a vet who has done 100s of crop surgeries, along with a number of huge impactions like Buffy had, said I could feed her that same night (i.e., about 5 hrs post-op).
However, 6 days after her surgery, when I phoned the Vet about Buffy's crop already getting Big, our combined experimentation resulted in fasting her for between 37 and 40 hours. Her crop was not empty before (or after) that though.

Probiotics: I was giving her a capsule with 1-2 of her meals/day, just before surgery, and then afterwards, while she's been on antibiotics. Then I stopped, feeling nothing was helping. (To be fair, her crop was so impacted pre-surgery that maybe I shouldn't count that time period.) I did decide to resume them this a.m. But she's back on that THIRD round of antibiotics! (Tylan)

Meals & Food: Small meals, agreed. She's a bantam, who shouldn't have more than 20 mL in the crop at a time; I usually feed her 10 mL every 2-3 hours, give or take a 1/2 hour. After surgery I fed her even less than 10 mL at a time, & less frequently, to try to really ease her into things.. but she blew up within a few days anyway! She's still eating baby food with a little yogurt, and a couple drops of Poultry Cell on most meals. I assumed rice would expand, but if it's safe, I'll give it a try! There's also a bird ground up food I recently gave her a few times (really meant for tube feeding). I'm attaching a pic of it. Hopefully I'm feeding her an appropriate amount of food!

Gosh, I wish I had known/thought of the Vetricyn after her surgery on her sutures. I've had it here all along.

But here's another Insane Update: **
**Vet Re-visit after food started leaking from the new staples that the vet added a few hours before: I took Buffy the next morning (Sat., 5/27). I should have phoned, because my Vet/any bird vet wasn't there. They offered to phone mine though.
While there, I remembered advice you wrote, @azygous, about SuperGluing a holed crop! So I had them ask if the hole were small enough, should I just try that, at least until after the 3-day weekend? The Vet said yes, and they gave me some Vetbond to take home. This is of course the sealant used on wounds. (In fact, a great chicken vet across the miles asked me why that wasn't initially used with the sutures - I replied, "I dunno," Fwiw...) Anyway, Vet said to clean the area and then use the glue.

Back to Reglan: Also, Vet Rx'd Reglan - he decided to try it again. My concern is, she'd been completely off it for a few days because Vet wanted to see how she did on her own. This Rx is an increase in frequency AND in dosage. I didn't notice that til I got home. Up from 0.25 mL, two-three x/day to 0.30 mL, three-four x/day. But I'm no Vet, of course. (Buffy weighs about 1.5 lbs.)

Gluing the new leak = Fiasco because I was working around stitches and staples, with some food oozing out which I tried to pick and clean without undoing staples or hurting Buffy... I followed your instructions as best I could, & read the Vetbond instructions, which said to apply a thin coat; too thick and it could crack. Of course, the stuff is super thin & runs... Plus, applying it over even a little food was just Wrong... I had no other choice though. Nor could I seal both layers of skin as there was still food in there!

Crop bra: I put on a tighter, diy version of a Birdy Bra on her last night (to replace the bra that's loose & not really doing anything).
I have to have something covering the crop or else Buffy finds the oozing food and... well, she's a chicken...
Of course, unless food stops piling up in the crop, the best compression won't help.

The Glue Job: A little food still leaked out overnight. New or missed hole??

Meanwhile, Buffy is still somehow hanging in there. Stooling, talking, jumping around, cuddling up on my lap as usual, poor girl.

So... I'll give the probiotics a.m. & p.m., continue with small meals, add some rice, spray Vetricyn, (keep the better crop bra on), & get 4 doses of Reglan (whether 0.25 or 0.3 mL) into her per day... and Hope for the Best !!!

 

[khind]

This is the bird food I fed her a few times recently:

 

[khind]

@azygous @Wyorp Rock @Eggcessive can you help?

From the articles I've read you should initially withhold food for 36 hours and then treat the condition.

Is she healthy enough to do that? How does her weight feel?

I answered your question in my general reply.

 

[SmiYa0126]

I REALLY appreciate all of you taking the time to read this saga!

(Don't miss the Insane Update** below!!)

Weight/Fasting: Buffy's very thin, very bony - has been for quite a while since all this started (I'm still mystified at her energy level and personality).
No she didn't fast for 36 hrs; no one suggested that. The vet who did the surgery guessed I should feed her pretty soon after her initial surgery; another vet in the office mused that I should probably "wait quite a while." However, a vet who has done 100s of crop surgeries, along with a number of huge impactions like Buffy had, said I could feed her that same night (i.e., about 5 hrs post-op).
However, 6 days after her surgery, when I phoned the Vet about Buffy's crop already getting Big, our combined experimentation resulted in fasting her for between 37 and 40 hours. Her crop was not empty before (or after) that though.

Probiotics: I was giving her a capsule with 1-2 of her meals/day, just before surgery, and then afterwards, while she's been on antibiotics. Then I stopped, feeling nothing was helping. (To be fair, her crop was so impacted pre-surgery that maybe I shouldn't count that time period.) I did decide to resume them this a.m. But she's back on that THIRD round of antibiotics! (Tylan)

Meals & Food: Small meals, agreed. She's a bantam, who shouldn't have more than 20 mL in the crop at a time; I usually feed her 10 mL every 2-3 hours, give or take a 1/2 hour. After surgery I fed her even less than 10 mL at a time, & less frequently, to try to really ease her into things.. but she blew up within a few days anyway! She's still eating baby food with a little yogurt, and a couple drops of Poultry Cell on most meals. I assumed rice would expand, but if it's safe, I'll give it a try! There's also a bird ground up food I recently gave her a few times (really meant for tube feeding). I'm attaching a pic of it. Hopefully I'm feeding her an appropriate amount of food!

Gosh, I wish I had known/thought of the Vetricyn after her surgery on her sutures. I've had it here all along.

But here's another Insane Update: **
**Vet Re-visit after food started leaking from the new staples that the vet added a few hours before: I took Buffy the next morning (Sat., 5/27). I should have phoned, because my Vet/any bird vet wasn't there. They offered to phone mine though.
While there, I remembered advice you wrote, @azygous, about SuperGluing a holed crop! So I had them ask if the hole were small enough, should I just try that, at least until after the 3-day weekend? The Vet said yes, and they gave me some Vetbond to take home. This is of course the sealant used on wounds. (In fact, a great chicken vet across the miles asked me why that wasn't initially used with the sutures - I replied, "I dunno," Fwiw...) Anyway, Vet said to clean the area and then use the glue.

Back to Reglan: Also, Vet Rx'd Reglan - he decided to try it again. My CONCERN: She'd been completely off it for a few days because Vet wanted to see how she did on her own. This Rx is an increase in frequency AND in dosage. I didn't notice that til I got home. Up from 0.25 mL, two-three x/day to 0.30 mL, three-four x/day. I was worried about that until I could find out more, so her first 2 doses have only been 0.25. My goal was to increase the frequency first. Maybe that's wrong of me - I'm no Vet! But I do know that my Vet is experimenting with all these things - he's as much as said so. (Buffy weighs about 1.5 lbs.)

Gluing the new leak = Fiasco because I was working around stitches and staples, with some food oozing out which I tried to pick and clean without undoing staples or hurting Buffy... I followed your instructions as best I could, & read the Vetbond instructions, which said to apply a thin coat; too thick and it could crack. Of course, the stuff is super thin & runs... Plus, applying it over even a little food was just Wrong... I had no other choice though. Nor could I seal both layers of skin as there was still food in there!

Crop bra: I put on a tighter, diy version of a Birdy Bra on her last night (to replace the bra that's loose & not really doing anything).
I have to have something covering the crop or else Buffy finds the oozing food and... well, she's a chicken...
Of course, unless food stops piling up in the crop, the best compression won't help.

The Glue Job: A little food still leaked out overnight. New or missed hole??

Meanwhile, Buffy is still somehow hanging in there. Stooling, talking, jumping around, cuddling up on my lap as usual, poor girl.

So... I'll give the probiotics a.m. & p.m., continue with small meals, add some rice, spray Vetricyn, (keep the better crop bra on), & get 4 doses of Reglan (whether 0.25 or 0.3 mL) into her per day... and Hope for the Best !!!

Hi! What does she eat on her own?

 

[khind]

@SmiYa0126 Hello! She will eat anything on her own (she doesn't need to be tube fed). But at the condition her crop is currently in, she is not supposed to have any rocks, dirt, poultry feed/crumbles (too rough), plant matter, etc., anything except very soft liquid-y foods, until her crop (someday...??) heals up.

 

[khind]

I'm going to switch my probiotic for Buffy to Lactobacillus GG. See if that might make a difference.