Crossbreeding dual purpose breeds for sustainable flock

[RiverOtter]

Rather than trying to pull the hens, it might be easier to pull the cockerels as you see them (combs bigger & redder), and after you've removed about 1/3 of the birds as probable-males, just feed the others the way you want to feed females. Of course you'd keep moving cockerels into the male-only group as they appear, but that way all females and some males would get a bit of feed restriction, rather than continuing to free-feed the whole group while you try to be sure about who the females are.

Can I just add, this works great, but ONLY choose replacement roosters from the first 1/3 of the cockerels you removed. Some of the late-maturing group will end up huge and beautiful, but that puts late maturing genes in your flock.

This is the first cull. If I haven't marked a bird as a rooster by 6 weeks, he's not staying, no matter what he looks like later. It's just way too easy to get slow-growing, late maturing genes in your flock.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

Can I just add, this works great, but ONLY choose replacement roosters from the first 1/3 of the cockerels you removed. Some of the late-maturing group will end up huge and beautiful, but that puts late maturing genes in your flock.

This is the first cull. If I haven't marked a bird as a rooster by 6 weeks, he's not staying, no matter what he looks like later. It's just way too easy to get slow-growing, late maturing genes in your flock.

Thanks that makes sense. I'm not keeping roos from the FR. But that will be really good for choosing from the mixed roos.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

I felt so ready for the chicks. Now it's two weeks out from them shipping and I'm finding all this stuff to prepare or that I'd forgotten. Seems the way it always goes!

I got several chick waters on sale ages ago, and have jars for them. I had a small feeder but now cannot find it.. of course.. So new feeders it is.

I also underestimated the size of the chick heat plate. I can fit it in the biiiig tote but there would only be like two inches extra on one end. Oops! So I'm going to clean up and check with the big indoor cages I was planning to use. Fingers crossed. But I'm not sure it will leave enough space. I'll have to use the heat lamp for that.
I have a 40gal trough. That would definitely leave space around the heat plate. Not ideal but could use if needed. I have some other ideas that could work. We shall see.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

I'm really hoping for a good mix of breeds from the mixed batches. I think it's 13 breeds. The page says at least 5 breeds in an order. If I was really lucky- I never am.. but if I was- then between 25 hens and 25 roos, I could get 5 of each and nearly cover all the options. That'd make it interesting! Ha!

After thinking about it off and on I'm thinking most likely end up building two chickshaws. Then I can have either the FR hens and the mix hens separately. Or like the FR hens and the best mix hens. Then the other mix hens can be egg production only. And alternate the roos as needed for hatching eggs. (I may be reiterating this from previous thoughts/posts, sorry.)
This would also be interesting to have two flocks basically, being able to have them in different areas.

 

[Ridgerunner]

One thing that is pretty certain is that something will not work out the way you plan. Could be good, could be bad. The more flexibility you build into it the better.

Good luck!

 

[RiverOtter]

A 40 gallon trough works great. You got this.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

Rough overview of chicken plans...
April 1 chicks in.
May 13, 6wks, start transition to grower feed.
May 27, 8wks, evaluate hens and roos.
June 3, 9wks butcher FR roos (and fat hens as needed).
July 22, 16wks, evaluate hens and roos. Butcher roos.
Aug 5, 18wks, earliest egg watch.
Aug 19, 20wks, should be eggs or soon starting.

I looked over mcmurray site again. They have a list of the egg laying for the breeds: best, better, good, fair. Eggs per year... eggs per week.
Best: 281-365... 5-7
Better: 221-280... 4-5
Good: 151-220... 3-4
Fair: 150 or less... 3 or less

The breeds available in the brown layer/all heavies mixes I got...
Best: red/black star, australorp, RIR.
Better: barred rock, light brahma, new hampshire, silver lace wyandotte, turken, white orpington, white giant.
Good: white/columbian wyandotte, black giant, buff orpington, sussex, white/partridge/buff rock, delaware, dark cornish.

Estimating the hens I get will average 4 eggs per week... times 20 hens... about 11 eggs per day and maybe 80 eggs per week. 5 eggs per week average would be about 14 per day and maybe 100 per week. Going to be lots of eggs!
The FR are also in the 3-4 per week average. So lets say 10 hens... 4-6 eggs per day and 28-42 eggs per week. This is why I'm thinking they should be in their own chickshaw. I don't know how sturdy they will be and if any broiler influence is going to come from them then I'll need to optimize how many of their eggs are incubated. Whereas the other hens should lay and be healthy for at least two years.
Starting the lay in August though... Even if I collect eggs Sept 1-10.. Set on Sept 11.. Hatching Oct 1.. That's not ideal for Ohio weather. Depending on how the year goes october is like late sept, november is fall, and december is suddenly winter.. Or in october we get tons of rain and some light snow and november dumps us right into actual winter weather. Plus how long will they lay without supplemented lighting, which I don't want to do.

Darn... That was not ideal... The Oct 1 hatched chicks would then be 20wks in mid Feb. Soon as the light comes they'd be ready to start laying. And any nice meaty roos would be ready to breed over the mixed hens for 2022 hatchings. This time next year I'd be waiting for egg production to pick up and be ready to hatch the next generation.
Ohhh there's a thought... If so I could have the first cross FR hatch and then plan to order a batch of FR hens... No, they only ship through August so that wouldn't work. Darn that would have worked out just perfect if I could have ordered FR hens for the same time and had them ready too! I mean, raising chicks in winter is not ideal but for hatching all year it would have lined up nice.

If the FR hens prove to be hardy and regular-chicken-like then who knows, maybe I'll have nice hens and all next year to collect and hatch from them.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Going to be lots of eggs!

It will be. I know how much fun it is to make these estimates, I do the same thing. You need to make plans. But don't be too surprised if you get a lot more eggs than you expect.

Starting the lay in August though... Even if I collect eggs Sept 1-10.. Set on Sept 11.

You'll read that you should not hatch pullet eggs. There are reasons they say that, but your goals are different. Part of this comes down to evaluating which is your best stock before you start to hatch, but the main reason is that pullet eggs often don't hatch as well as eggs laid later in the laying cycle.

For an egg to hatch the pullet has to put the egg together pretty much perfectly. The internal egg making factory is fairly complicated. It's not unusual for a pullet to take some time before they get all the kinks worked out. So your hatch rate probably won't be as high as if you use eggs laid by older hens. Also pullet eggs are pretty small compared to what size they will lay in a few weeks or months. Still, I'm often surprised at how many get it right from the start.

I hatch pullet eggs. Sometimes I get good hatch rates, sometimes I don't. Different reasons for that. Because the eggs are small the chicks that hatch out of them are small too. The vast majority of the chicks that do hatch do fine, but a few may be a bit weaker than they could be. I find that if I can wait a month after a pullet starts laying to set her eggs I do better. Even two weeks is better. You need to hatch according to your goals, but if the results are not what you hope for don't be shocked.

Plus how long will they lay without supplemented lighting, which I don't want to do.

Another great unknown. It is fairly common for some pullets to skip the fall molt their first year and continue laying all winter, even without supplemental lights. Some pullets, not all pullets. A lot of people misread that on the forum. Productivity can drop but don't be surprised if you continue to get a lot of eggs all winter.

raising chicks in winter is not ideal but for hatching all year it would have lined up nice.

No it is not, the risks and challenges are higher. You will likely have to work harder too. But for their own reasons some people do it. I set eggs in late January or early February so I don't run out of meat in the freezer in June or July. "Ideal" conditions are nice, but for me it's the conditions "I deal" with.

As I said before, be flexible. You are on a learning curve. Things will not work out exactly as planned, but you still need a plan. Yours is as good as any. Good luck.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Following.

Last year I hatch my own Meat Birds. I crossed Brahma, & Easter Egger which turned out to be a good cross for meaty deul purpose birds. The crossing created Giants, that weight about 10+ pounds. Biggest cockerel I kept for breeding purposes, he was 24 inches tall, & weighed 15lbs. Sadly he was killed by a senseless person.

The pullets were very prolific layers, & meaty too. They weighed like around 9½lbs - 10lbs.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

It will be. I know how much fun it is to make these estimates, I do the same thing. You need to make plans. But don't be too surprised if you get a lot more eggs than you expect.

Well getting some pigs this year is also in the works so that should keep me from ever being over run.. Haha! I try to round things up or down in a "costs up, profit down" kind of way. Feed use, round up.. Cost, round up.. Product, round down.. Male:female ratio, whatever you want, there will be more of the other one.. Ha!

You'll read that you should not hatch pullet eggs. There are reasons they say that, but your goals are different. Part of this comes down to evaluating which is your best stock before you start to hatch, but the main reason is that pullet eggs often don't hatch as well as eggs laid later in the laying cycle.

For an egg to hatch the pullet has to put the egg together pretty much perfectly. The internal egg making factory is fairly complicated. It's not unusual for a pullet to take some time before they get all the kinks worked out. So your hatch rate probably won't be as high as if you use eggs laid by older hens. Also pullet eggs are pretty small compared to what size they will lay in a few weeks or months. Still, I'm often surprised at how many get it right from the start.

I hatch pullet eggs. Sometimes I get good hatch rates, sometimes I don't. Different reasons for that. Because the eggs are small the chicks that hatch out of them are small too. The vast majority of the chicks that do hatch do fine, but a few may be a bit weaker than they could be. I find that if I can wait a month after a pullet starts laying to set her eggs I do better. Even two weeks is better. You need to hatch according to your goals, but if the results are not what you hope for don't be shocked.

I had a basic understanding that waiting for the egg laying to work out the kinks was best. And about older hens better hatching etc. But yeah, with the freedom ranger hens it's an unknown so far if I'll be working to keep them from being too fat or fast growing like the Cx. Also because I haven't raised them before. People tryin to cross the Cx is a race to egg laying and then hatch everything because the Cx could kick the bucket at any time. Which is why I'm not going that route. But keeping that in mind.
18wks would put them beginning of August starting laying. 20wks would be mid August. So hatching starting in September would be a month later or about two weeks later. Ideally if the FR hens are good and healthy then I could put off starting to hatch from them til later.

Another great unknown. It is fairly common for some pullets to skip the fall molt their first year and continue laying all winter, even without supplemental lights. Some pullets, not all pullets. A lot of people misread that on the forum. Productivity can drop but don't be surprised if you continue to get a lot of eggs all winter.

Hmm, I missed that. I was kind of just assuming some would stop and some would lay at a lower rate. Good to know!

No it is not, the risks and challenges are higher. You will likely have to work harder too. But for their own reasons some people do it. I set eggs in late January or early February so I don't run out of meat in the freezer in June or July. "Ideal" conditions are nice, but for me it's the conditions "I deal" with.

As I said before, be flexible. You are on a learning curve. Things will not work out exactly as planned, but you still need a plan. Yours is as good as any. Good luck.

Thanks! I try to always be open minded and ready to adjust if things aren't working out. Just today I had a reminder of that with my sheep.

Following.

Last year I hatch my own Meat Birds. I crossed Brahma, & Easter Egger which turned out to be a good cross for meaty deul purpose birds. The crossing created Giants, that weight about 10+ pounds. Biggest cockerel I kept for breeding purposes, he was 24 inches tall, & weighed 15lbs. Sadly he was killed by a senseless person.

The pullets were very prolific layers, & meaty too. They weighed like around 9½lbs - 10lbs.

Oh cool! Was that older birds or like 16/20wks?

With the mixed ones I got I'm really interested to see what I end up getting. Without having any to evaluate yet I'm kind of thinking the FR cross I hatch will turn out to be used most for my project. But I'll definitely want a couple to hatch out regular layer mixes.