Crossbreeding dual purpose breeds for sustainable flock

[HomesteadNowhere]

Freedom ranger hatchery also has new Hampshires from a meat line. I would have liked to had them as well but I didn't find them until after placing my orders. Plus I'm going to be pushing it trying to brood 75 chicks as it is...

I'm looking at my projects and putting money to projects. I'd really like to have these chickens on pasture. I will be getting a price on the lumber soon for a broiler shelter (salatin style) and a chickshaw. I priced chicken electric netting and by length it's more expensive than the sheep netting but the chickens have more predators. I don't think coons or anything go through the sheep netting but the chickens would be able to fit through until they were much older. So looking at that investment.

The chickshaw says max 36 chickens. Seems good. Incoming chicks will be 25 mixed hens and let's say 12 hens of the straight run FR. That's 37 hens of incoming chicks and they won't all make it and a few may not be what I want to keep. Should work out fine.
The broiler shelter will be for the roosters. The FRs will be butchered on regular schedule, and any obviously too heavy FR hens. That will leave the broiler shelter for the mixed roos to grow out.

I'm still tossing around ideas of how I want to separate groups for hatching. If the chosen roos get along it'd be great to have them just in the chickshaw and rotate them. Maybe a small coop and run for the FR hens and their roo. Then I could know FR eggs from the mixed bunch. Maybe a mini chickshaw for them. I'd really prefer to have them on pasture than coop and run if I can help it.

 

[NatJ]

The chickshaw says max 36 chickens.

How big is that chicksaw?

If you want 4 square feet of space per hen, that would be 144 square feet, which is 12 feet by 12 feet, or 10 feet by 14 feet.

If it's much smaller than that, then the chicksaw might provide enough roost space and nest space but not enough living space for them--fine if they can get out the instant they wake up every morning, but a problem every time the weather is bad. (Combining it with a large covered run for rainy days and snowy winter might work, though.)

 

[Ridgerunner]

If you want 4 square feet of space per hen, that would be 144 square feet, which is 12 feet by 12 feet, or 10 feet by 14 feet.

Do a search on Chickshaw. It's not a coop where that magic 4 square feet per chicken covers everything from a tiny coop in the backyard for four hens to a mixed age and sex flock of dozens or more. The Chickshaw is meant to be a mobile tractor used with electric netting to provide a place to sleep at night. Tractors do not act the same as a permanent coop.

the chickens would be able to fit through until they were much older.

My dual purpose chicks can fit through the Premiere1 electric netting until they are about 7 weeks old. Not sure how long Rangers or mixed-breed partial Ranger chicks would take to be confined.

The chickshaw says max 36 chickens.

I don't know what size of Chickshaw you are planning on. I suggest being flexible on this and see what numbers actually work for you. I just don't trust any magic numbers but like to make my own assessment on space needs. There are just too many variables for any magic number to work for everyone in every situation.

You say the Chickshaw is for the hens. What do you plan to do in winter? You may not be able to move it every day in an Ohio winter. And if you get weather where they are stuck inside the space requirements do go up. Maybe a tractor in the good weather and overwinter them in your other shelters?

I'm still tossing around ideas of how I want to separate groups for hatching.

I don't now if you know this or not. It might help with your planning. It takes an egg about 25 hours to go through the hen's internal egg making factory. The egg can only be fertilized during the first few minutes of that journey. That means if a mating takes place on a Monday, Monday's egg is not fertile from that mating. Tuesday's egg might or might not be, depending on timing. Wednesday's egg should be.

A rooster does not mate every hen every day, he doesn't have to. In the last part of mating the rooster hops off. His part is done. The hen then stands up, fluffs up, and shakes. This fluffy shake gets the sperm into a container near where the egg starts its internal journey. That sperm can remain viable for maybe 9 days to over three weeks. This means to be sure that the hen is clean from a previous rooster she needs to be kept away from any rooster other than the chosen one for at least three weeks and maybe even four. Four weeks is a fairly substantial percentage of the year,

Pasturing with tractors and electric netting is a well documented method. Some advantages and some disadvantages. That Chickshaw has some interesting features but I can't recommend or advise against it. It looks like it will be pretty easy to move by hand which is a great advantage with a tractor but there are always surprises with anything. Good luck.

 

[Molpet]

I have premier shock or not with the chick guard on the bottom ft or so. Worked great for a couple years until the squirrels figured out they could jump and dive through above the chick netting. I have the poultry yard divided into several areas. The area to the east is where the squirrels go through. Chicks in that area also learned that trick. The chicks in other areas, that can't see the tricksters, don't go through it.

One of my 8x8 coops,has about 35 birds. I put 13 in, but over the last couple years, birds keep leaving the coops they were in and packing that coop. The coops are all cattle panels and tarps. One is 8x24 but the turkeys hang out in it. This year, a broody with 14 chicks along with 3 cockerels and 2 pullets left it for the sardine coop. 2 cockerels and 2 pullets stayed.

 

[Timmy59]

7 degrees F here today 2 eggs from the 8 white rock hens and 8 eggs from the 10 broiler hens.. Limited water since it's frozen most of the day.. This here cold front is going to test the hardiness of these birds.

 

[NatJ]

Limited water since it's frozen most of the day.. This here cold front is going to test the hardiness of these birds.

I'm guessing you aren't able to go out and refresh it every few hours all day long

Have you tried giving them wet feed once or twice a day? That helps them get food and water both, and they seem to enjoy it enough that they eat it fast, so they get full before it has a chance to freeze.

Chickens usually won't eat much dry food when they're thirsty, so frozen water sometimes means they don't eat enough either.

 

[Timmy59]

61 and 2nd gen small farmer 1000's of birds and critters under my belt.. Very little loss of life, they stand a decent chance of making it..

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

7wks old on the chicks in the netting, good to know. I'm expecting a size difference in the mixed and the FR so we'll see.

Yes the original article says 36. I agree, animals don't read the articles and follow the guidelines. I'd be working with it and seeing how many is really working for my birds in it. Plus difference in chicken size and temperament. No way to put a rock solid for sure number to it.
I don't know the dimensions of it offhand but it's not tiny. The biggest cost is going to be the gosh dang wheels for it. Will probably be trying to alter slightly for bike tires. We'll see.

Winter. I'll be building a new building for wintering my sheep. I have an idea list running because I want to build another smaller version of it for my rabbits. Then that building to winter the chickens and brooding chicks. It's a matter of what's getting money first. I want to be able to fence around it and have hot wire around it for predator protection. And with any snow I won't be able to rely on the netting. So that's in the plans.

Yes it was only in researching for this project that I fully understood the breeding specifics for chickens. Any groups would need to be separated for a month to be able to for sure say the new roo is the sire of the chicks.
As of right now I'm wondering if the bulk of the program might not be with the FR hens offspring. If I have them in a separate chickshaw or coop then I'd just rotate what roo is with them. The bulk of hatching being from them.
The second year seems pretty likely to be primarily FR crossed offspring. The bulk of them could be run in the chickshaw(s) and with multiple roos. Then the very best of them in a smaller group and their own chickshaw to be the primary breeding. Any really great offspring from the bigger group could be added. That would lessen a genetic bottleneck. The smaller group being the primary breeding and the bigger group being more for eating eggs.

My main reason for going with the chickshaw design is ease of movement. Everything here is on a hill and angle. Any flat area was done with shovels or equipment. Having a salatin style broiler shelter will mainly be for starting chicks in going forward. There's very few area where I can put it (even my quarter sized one) than there wouldn't be large gaps between it and the ground. That kind of thing isn't workable here for the most part.
Anything I do needs to be something I can do by myself and not a major pain that will never end up used. ((Ahem, like a certain portable shelter that my dad "helped" with and ended up enormous weight and barely skiddable with a tractor... and it's still not even usable...))

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

I've been cleaning today. Making sure I have space for the cages where the chicks will be started brooding. I have to gather up the cages tomorrow and clean them up. I'm also going to measure the real big totes I got for my wool storage. See if the heat plate would fit. I think they were $13 each and they'd be good when I need to separate them out for space as they grow. Until I have the broiler shelter built and ready. I'm assuming the FR will be ready to go out first.

I'll have to check. Anyone know about how old I might start being able to tell the sex on the FR chicks? I want to pull the hens to make sure they don't go feed crazy. Don't want them getting too much inner fat if they're going to be healthy breeders for me for a while.

 

[NatJ]

Anyone know about how old I might start being able to tell the sex on the FR chicks? I want to pull the hens to make sure they don't go feed crazy. Don't want them getting too much inner fat if they're going to be healthy breeders for me for a while.

I don't know for sure, but with most single-comb breeds you can spot a few cockerels by 3 weeks, and most cockerels by 8 weeks or so.

Rather than trying to pull the hens, it might be easier to pull the cockerels as you see them (combs bigger & redder), and after you've removed about 1/3 of the birds as probable-males, just feed the others the way you want to feed females. Of course you'd keep moving cockerels into the male-only group as they appear, but that way all females and some males would get a bit of feed restriction, rather than continuing to free-feed the whole group while you try to be sure about who the females are.