CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[fowlman01]

The story as I have heard it was that when the first colored standard was being put together, one artist was selected to do all the breeds. When that artist was working on the Dominique, changes to the paintings were requested by the DCA but rejected by the artist, and in the end, that person went with their own vision/interpretation. I have not seen the newest version, but I have admired Katherine Plummer's work before; has she done a new Dominique illustration?

As an aside; seriously? $50.00? That's sad. I can't help but wonder why were they so miserly about paying for an artist. (Just a rhetorical question, I don't really expect you to have an answer about how the APA operated back then.

)

Well I can tell you how the APA operated back then as I was there and was a APA Director at that time.. What you heard.....like a lot of things in this hobby lately, is just not true as I said in my last post. The artist just did not have that power. He/she could not make personal decisions on how the bird looked. People seem to come along later and modify these facts to come closer to what they want to be the truth. I just looked at the Dom art in the SOP. Can you tell us all what is wrong with it? It is not a piece of fine art, but it appears to depict the bird the way the description reads. At that time the APA could not afford to pay more to the artist as the book would be in the hundreds of dollars instead of the $59.00 delivered that it is now. Most people are happy with the illustrations and that is all the APA can expect.

The key here is the word "story". I don't put much stock in "stories". While I was not on the Standard Committee back then, I was around and the Directors make all the decisions for the APA. Change your story to say that there was more than one artist when the original illustrations were done...there was more than one artist. You are regurgitating what you have heard somewhere and it is just not correct. I have been on the SOP committee for over 25 years, so if anyone wants to know the true story .....ask me. This is not the first time you have posted misinformation about the APA and is really the only reason I respond to your inaccurate posts. Once someone reads this kind of stuff here on BYC it becomes true....until the other side is presented.

Walt

 

[Robert Blosl]

I would like to move on to a new breed. You are beating a dead horse on this breeding issue. The fellow in Ohio who has a great strain and New York Reds who improved his black and white chickens are who I would interview. I am sure it is not a easy breed to learn with it takes great skill to breed color like most breeds.

In regards to Schilling from what I read he obeyed the APA who paid him for his work. He advised the Rhode Island Red CLub to make black and white cuts of pullets and cockerels to see the difference in what they should look like at 10 months of age vs the normal 18 month old picture that was in the standard but they would not come up with the $200. for the project. Wish they would have. There should be some leeway in your mind of what a cockerel and a cock bird should look like when selecting them but most people look at the picture of the cock bird in the standard and choose their breeders based on that picture.

In my experience of 20 years only once did the APA ask the Rhode Island Red Club if we wanted to make a change in the standard of perfection and allow black ticking in the males hackle. It was voted down big time. The person who wanted to make the change had black in his males neck feathers and could not get it out. So then change the standard so he would not get cut by the good judges.

Look forward to the next breed.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Well, Robert, you'll be pleased to know that next up is the Java.

 

[fowlman01]

I would like to move on to a new breed. You are beating a dead horse on this breeding issue. The fellow in Ohio who has a great strain and New York Reds who improved his black and white chickens are who I would interview. I am sure it is not a easy breed to learn with it takes great skill to breed color like most breeds.

In regards to Schilling from what I read he obeyed the APA who paid him for his work. He advised the Rhode Island Red CLub to make black and white cuts of pullets and cockerels to see the difference in what they should look like at 10 months of age vs the normal 18 month old picture that was in the standard but they would not come up with the $200. for the project. Wish they would have. There should be some leeway in your mind of what a cockerel and a cock bird should look like when selecting them but most people look at the picture of the cock bird in the standard and choose their breeders based on that picture.

In my experience of 20 years only once did the APA ask the Rhode Island Red Club if we wanted to make a change in the standard of perfection and allow black ticking in the males hackle. It was voted down big time. The person who wanted to make the change had black in his males neck feathers and could not get it out. So then change the standard so he would not get cut by the good judges.

Look forward to the next breed.

People always want the SOP to describe the birds they have in THEIR back yard. Most of the activity the SOP Committee see's is people trying to change the Standard to fit their birds. The substance of the SOP is rarely changed.

Walt

 

[Robert Blosl]

Javas O boy Fred. I am so excited I went out on my lawn and did a cart wheel. Dogs think I am nuts. Wife says what are you doing that for? Told her I dont have to work today.

Next month I just work Mondays and Fridays. The life of retirement.

When it comes to Javas I got Five. Two old hens a pullet and two cock birds. I got eggs in the incubator and hope to hatch some this spring and to share with the Java folks who want them.

This line came from a fellow who got them about four years ago from Dr. Albert McGraws son. Dr. McGraw had a flock of Mottled Javas for a long long time and died in or about 7 years ago. Some say he got many started with sharing his birds with them. I do not know where he got them from but he was a old time conservationist and preservationist of rare breeds. They are to my understanding still pure and do not have any Black Java cross blood in them.

They are of good size, lay a big egg and are heavy. They are for me a little like leghorns but it may be they just dont know me that well and are a little upset leaving their home for all these years so I can take care of them. The fellow who owned them works in Afghanistan as a Private contractor. His father was getting up in years and could no longer take care of them and he needed to find a home for them and chose me. I feel honored to take on this old line even though I am no longer raising large fowl birds but it was a emergency and I had to help this fellow out.

There is a big Java movement out there with a good breed club and many making big strides in improving them. I wrote many articles for the Java Club on how to get started with them using my concepts of breeding Rocks and Reds. What works for them will work for any rare breed of fowl. I even wrote a article on how to make a Black Java bantam using a black rock bantam over a large fowl male and shrink them down like I did my Rhode Island Reds. A lot of wacko people made fun of my article however, there was a big time Java breeder from Kansas who did just what I said ten years ago so I guess I was not off that much on the subject. Its simple to do just takes about 15 years and about $10,000 in feed prices to do but when you do it you can say I did it.

So my theory is if the Buck eye folks can improve there favorite fowl like they did so can the Java people. I will post a picture of my old birds dont make fun of them because they have more white on them than you think they should as the standard calls for. I latter learned that every year they end up with more white on their bodies than black. This is normal. The secret to breeding these birds for color I think is to see how the ckls and pullets look after their first molt. The ones that have less or more uniform white to black ratio is your best color breeders. Thats what a Mottle large fowl Cochin person told me once.

So lets see all the Javas out there on this tread. Long live the Java the rare breed of chickens that is making a come back.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/223204/show-us-your-javas

 

[MagicChicken]

OK, I am excited we are doing Javas. Mine are 6-7 weeks old. Direct from Duane Urch. Too early to do much with but there are some issues I can see developing and I have questions about how to handle them. Planning on taking photos to illustrate those issues this weekend.

Thx,
Sarah

 

[MagicChicken]

I just posted on the Java thread about the current CSU discussion. Maybe some of them will join in.

Sarah

 

[bnjrob]

Well, I've tried to upload Java photos, to no avail. Compressing their size doesn't seem to matter, the upload window just sits open but doesn't do a darn thing.

Anybody else have Javas to see?

 

[MagicChicken]

These birds arrived as baby chicks from Duane Urch in mid January. They are about 6.5 weeks old. I had ordered 25 Black Java chicks, but gave a list of alternates if 25 black javas were not available. I got all Java chicks, but I am wondering if a couple of Mottled Javas got in the mix. It's too early to tell much regarding SOP conformity, but there are some questions I have. Here goes:

Most of these birds have soles that are pinkish, with no to very little yellow. A complete absence of yellow is a DQ:




A few birds have some yellow in the soles, but not as strong as I would like:




And a couple of them have definite yellow soles:



A few birds have several white-tipped body feathers. Two or more feathers tipped or edged with "positive white" is a DQ. As young chicks, these birds had lighter heads and chests than the birds that are not showing these white tips, and I was wondering even when they arrived if they were mottled or split for mottled. Probably have to wait and see what they develop into, but if anyone can tell me for sure I'd like to know:



Here's another view of the white-tipped feathers, and what looks to me like a very pinched tail:



I know these birds are very young, but there are a lot of them with pinched-looking tails. Is there a chance this will go away, or are pinched tails likely to be a major issue I need to watch out for? Here's a side x side:




Thanks for any insights y'all can give me!

Sarah

 

[MagicChicken]

Well, I've tried to upload Java photos, to no avail. Compressing their size doesn't seem to matter, the upload window just sits open but doesn't do a darn thing.

Anybody else have Javas to see?

Jennifer, give it a bit of time and try again. I had to try some of my photos multiple times to get them to upload. The system seems to be cranky. FYI, my photos ranged from 35 KB to 125 KB. The two larger photos gave me the most trouble uploading.

I want to see your birds!

Sarah