CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[aveca]

Here's a whole new can of worms concerning feather sexing. Maybe this is not exactly teh right thread for it but I know people hang here that really know what theyre talking about. In the *Buff Orpington Thread* someone says they wrote McMurray hatchery and asked what breeds they feather sex. One of the breeds mentioned that McMurray feather sexes is the Buff Orpington. Now, I've heard many, many times that they cannot be feather sexed. Anyone have any input on this? Could it be that these can simply because they have a fast feathering and slow feathering strains they use?

I just read on another thread that the chicks with dark dot on head in buffs are female, the ones without dots are male..Vickie would know more than I about that..Im too new to them..If thats the case, I hatched a trio but I honestly not sure unless mcmurray crossed with something else

 

[fowlman01]

I will say that a lot can be seen in a picture.....even though everyone has heard me say that pictures are not a good way to judge. You can't tell about the feel of the bird, but you can see things like wing and tail placement. I will throw this out too. I showed some New Hamps last year and had best American and res American several times with nice birds, but none of them deserved that placement. For a change I lucked out, but really the birds were not good enough to beat some of the birds I beat.....usually it is the other way around for me. I sometimes can't win with an outstanding bird sometimes...... to justify my opinion, I ask people who I trust about them. I had positive comments from other breeders and judges at the show and still did not do well.

So...bottom line is that you have to show the bird a few times under a few judges and talk to other breeders to be sure you have a bird that is really a great bird. Accumulated wins usually show the strength of the bird, but in my case last season I had wins with New Hamps I didn't deserve....these were competitive birds, but not as strong as the placings indicate. I was shocked each time, because I was really going for just best of breed. Now keep in mind that I have been showing for a very long time and we generally show 50 birds at a show, so I have a lot of experience laying these birds down so that they show to their very best. I train all my show birds to present the best qualities when a person walks up to the cage. That is usually a side view.

No one wants to hear negative things about a bird they have worked on, so I usually feel more comfortable when a person says tell me the good, the bad and the ugly. I never trust my own judgement on my own birds, as we get too close to them and see them every day, but we see them walking around and relaxed.....and we have preconceived ideas about how good it is. There is a term in showing called "barn blindness". That is what happens when a great breeder or judge can't see the faults of his/her own birds. It happens all the time.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

Amen to that!

OK here's and example for you all, not every fault ( or bonus) is visible:



Even though this little guy is charming as can be, he's got some issues if I were to show him. I won't show him. He's a pet, and eats plenty of bugs and provides comic relief to earn his keep.
- 1st off- I don't think his color is accepted yet, so he could not compete with other Bantam Orpingtons of accepted colors. Not a fault, but something to consider with the flood of new colors being imported and shown.
- 2nd- he is over his weight class for a bantam per APA
- 3rd- I feel the tail is too narrow
- 4th- side sprig on the comb

There may be other issues I am not aware of yet, but this is enough to dq him from MY group of potential show birds.

Good assessment on your part. The side sprig is a DQ.

To add to the list: He is flat on the lower breast, not great wing carriage, too much feather/fluff underneath the bird, color needs black lacing (something no one seems to care about on here). the blue should be laced like a good Andulusian and you very seldom see it even though everyone raves about the color of some of these blue Orps. Most Orp bantams these days are too big. Especially the ones that look like the British birds..as this one does. There are some good buff Orp bantams around that are the correct weight. All of these faults can be corrected...and that is the real fun in raising pure bred poultry. Start with what you have...if it is this close to correct and make it better. If it was off the charts I would suggest starting with something else, but this bird is good enough to work with. The side sprig may take a bit, but you can get rid of that as well...in the offspring. keep accurate records until you breed it out or use another male if you can.

Walt

 

[aveca]

Australorp Rooster..I did not feel like cageing him for a pic as Im setting up for NPIP..so not great photo..

In Ray connors book tha Australorp, he recomended when selecing birds for the breeding pen, look for your roosters weak points, find hens that will compliment and improve those points..

points that need work.
Little crow headed,
comb straight but too many points , 7 total.
eye could be more round - larger but good color.
legs over the years have faded to lighter grey from black.
one or 2 off color feathers like 1 solid white, one solid brown.

good points..
Nice shape well balanced in person.
best asset beautiful tail
good strong leggs and feet
no skeletal defects

 

[Jeanna Marie]

I thought I would post pictures of my babies for you guys to look at. I know that at 11-12 weeks they are not old enough to really know how close or far away from the SOP they will be as adults. But, I thought that maybe you guys could point out any obvious flaws that they have. I did get them from a breeder but other than that I know nothing of their parentage.

This is Molly..



This is Howard...



This is Sheldon...

 

[Hemlock Hill]

Good assessment on your part. The side sprig is a DQ.

To add to the list: He is flat on the lower breast, not great wing carriage, too much feather/fluff underneath the bird, color needs black lacing (something no one seems to care about on here). the blue should be laced like a good Andulusian and you very seldom see it even though everyone raves about the color of some of these blue Orps. Most Orp bantams these days are too big. Especially the ones that look like the British birds..as this one does. There are some good buff Orp bantams around that are the correct weight. All of these faults can be corrected...and that is the real fun in raising pure bred poultry. Start with what you have...if it is this close to correct and make it better. If it was off the charts I would suggest starting with something else, but this bird is good enough to work with. The side sprig may take a bit, but you can get rid of that as well...in the offspring. keep accurate records until you breed it out or use another male if you can.

Walt

Right- I know about the fluff as well. He is an import, so that is really what adds to most of his faults as APA. But he's chocolate- hard to tell from the pic. Its so shady here. Thank you!

 

[fowlman01]

Australorp Rooster..I did not feel like cageing him for a pic as Im setting up for NPIP..so not great photo..

In Ray connors book tha Australorp, he recomended when selecing birds for the breeding pen, look for your roosters weak points, find hens that will compliment and improve those points..

points that need work.
Little crow headed,
comb straight but too many points , 7 total.
eye could be more round - larger but good color.
legs over the years have faded to lighter grey from black.
one or 2 off color feathers like 1 solid white, one solid brown.

good points..
Nice shape well balanced in person.
best asset beautiful tail
good strong leggs and feet
no skeletal defects

He is leaning a bit forward, so it is hard to tell some things. The Australian Standard (country or origin) calls for 4-6 points. He has a good back which most don't have in this cou9ntry. Most of ours look too much like Orps IMO. I know trhat you are familiar with the Aussie Standard, but just put it down for the lurkers. Overall it looks like a good bird.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

Right- I know about the fluff as well. He is an import, so that is really what adds to most of his faults as APA. But he's chocolate- hard to tell from the pic. Its so shady here. Thank you!

Sorry! The chocolates many times look blue online for some reason. Our Standard and the British Standard are not that far apart, but currently they are breeding birds that look like yours...a little too fluffy.......although it is only on the underside of the bird. The other feathers seem OK by any Standard. Bantam Orps will want to get bigger naturally, so If you want them small, you have to work at it. It sounds as if you already have a good idea about most of this.

Walt

 

[Hemlock Hill]

I do like the bantams small.
I was really surprised at my first show how huge the bantam cochins were. Wowza!

 

[fowlman01]

I do like the bantams small.
I was really surprised at my first show how huge the bantam cochins were. Wowza!

Technically the size is determined by the weight and a Cochin can be a lot of feathers and not much body, where an Orp will carry more weight in the body. We have some pretty small Cochin bantams here in the west.

w.