CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[maryhysong]

I tried to post earlier; but the site wouldn't let me.
First up a young roo, hatched Sep 2012 so almost a year old. I'm debating on naming him dinner.

First, what's right; he has the sweetest disposition ever. In fact I had to move him into the baby coop because an EE boy was tearing him up. Yesterday I was catching all the girls in this pen to move them to one of their own and while he would come close to me and cluck and look when I made the girls sqwuak, he did not try and jump at me. While not a lap chicken he is not difficult to catch. I think his ear, eye, hackle, sickle & tail are the correct color. His legs are a tad washed out in this pic but they are not a real bright yellow. (this could be because I do not have corn in my feed; I'm going to experiment next year with marigolds and see if that helps) He does have black toenails tho.

Another thing I like about him is that he is pretty wide.

Yes, way too much color on his chest. Other things, seems to hold his wings pretty low. He seems a bit small, but I haven't weighed him in a few months so not sure where his weight is compared to standard; he is smaller than his father, who just makes adult weight at 5 yrs of age. I think his comb and wattles are a bit big. He does have some white underfluff in front of his tail. He has a couple tail feathers that seem to get a little white in them and then they go black and then they go white again. Sort of like a blotter sucking up ink then it draining out again.

I lost this boy's mother and his best looking sister to predators. I got some EE girls out of his sister and boy how I wish I had bred her to dad, because some of them are really pretty. Right now I am hosting 2 pullets for a friend who has no Wellie roo. This girl has a white legband. Many of the girls have been molting, so a little loose fluff there, not usually like that.




she isn't bad looking to me, but she is not as nice as the other girl, with a blue leg band.




Comparing white to blue; blue is bigger overall and wider through the hip; white looks a little pinched. White has a reddish cast to all her feathers, I am thinking that blue has more correct color. White's comb has a wrinkle, blue's comb has uneven points. I think both have OK eye color and their earlobes are both red. Overall I like Blue much better than white. I'm thinking we will mostly want to breed from her, tho we might do a small test hatch from white just to see what we get. (I am wondering which ones has the more correct color of butt fluff tho, white or blue?)

I have an old Wellie cock, about 5 yrs old, the father of the boy posted above. I won't post him as right now he is in terrible shape, having had a bad case of feather mites which I *thought* I'd gotten rid of. If I find any pics of him from last summer I will post them later.

So I'm wondering if you would keep that young roo? Or just hatch some from blue and hope for a better boy to come along?

(for those wondering Welsummers are hard to come by and nice birds even harder to find around here. I did get hatching eggs last fall, hatched a pair, the boy was failure to thrive and died in a few days. The pullet was also lost to predators just as she reached POL, but I wasn't that impressed with her any way. I might try more eggs again this fall when it cools off.)

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Nicely balanced, and color looks OK (hard to really determine from picture). However, the tail is carried too low (read SOP) and she may be a bit too rangy looking.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: That's a great way to judge. I did find out one interesting thing. When I stopped fault-judging and started virtue-judging, I suddenly found it much easier to appreciate balance and symmetry in an animal. It was like my mind was using the best set of basic parameter for the job. Faults suddenly seemed much more manageable because I was seeing so much good in the animal first before considering its failings.
Best,
Karen

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

I like that cock in one of the top pics. Generally, though, I think many of the birds carry their tail at too low an angle, more like the German type.

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

sorry, the order of these got mixed up, above are two pullets. I shared them for comparison to the older stock. The tail angle is not quite there yet, but it will come. The thing I like is the consistency. The shape and size is the same. Also their hackles. As you look at all of these, you will see the color and amount of penciling is very consistent.

Other than her comb, I love this hen. Her back could be a little flatter, but her chest is nice and round, her coloring is great and her tail angle is just over 60 degrees. I REALLY like this hen (except her comb). I don't think here tail angle is over 60 degrees though...looks more like about 45 degrees to me. But that is a lot better than many others. Her color looks great, judging from the photo. (Can't tell her leg color though.) My personal preference is for a smaller head (you will find several references to that feature in the literature, but I doubt whether any of our judges would note that fact. I would definitely use this bird in a breeding program.

you can see from behind that this hens back is nice and broad - legs are a little faded due to age. Hackles are the perfect color and amount of even penciling

This shows the nice round breast, and good salmon color - again, legs are faded - I would prefer to see the yellow coloring last into years 2 and 3.



this hen above is one of Nate Vanwey/Ewesheep's hatch. tail angle is a little low in this shot, but you can see her back is a little flatter in this one. Still showing a nice rounded breast.



Here is another hen I like.

these show a good head shape and nice even wattles. The comb is a mess though!


Mr rooster - he is over 3 years old and starting a molt.. so not at his best lol. Wing carriage is too low, chest is not round and full enough. Wattles are getting a little on the long side -but not bad for his age. In the top picture he is scanning for "danger" (me with the camera) and is holding his neck elongated. He look more proportionate in the picture below. He does have grey/white fluff at the base of the tail. He also started throwing a white tail feather at the age of 2. Wing carriage in the bottom picture is a little better.
A bit hard to tell from this angle, but I think this rooster's back has too much of a slope toward the tail. I think they should be ALMOST horizontal, with but a SLIGHT tendency to slope.


ll of the adult hens posted are Nate Vanwey stock. Three were hatched by me and are 2nd generation and are owned by Ewesheep, the other (with the green leg band) is first generation from Nate

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

This is a big cock bird. His wing carriage is low, leg color is lacking. I'd like to see him have more width of feather. His back is pretty broad, chest a little flat, but mostly black with a just a little stippling.



Nice big hen, good color, leg color is a little lacking, something I'm working on with my birds. Nice rounded breast. She has a cushioned back which is a fault.

Many good qualities, but the wing carriage is an issue.

This girl was one of my favorites, she was big. Her leg color was lacking and wing carriage a little low.

Tail too pinched
This pullet is showing some promise.

Except that leg color, I like the hen up front. Nice.

Nice wing carriage and type on these girls. Again, leg color is a little lacking, something I'm diligently working on.

Anyone, feel free to "pick them apart" if you wish.

 

[maryhysong]

Nicely balanced, and color looks OK (hard to really determine from picture). However, the tail is carried too low (read SOP) and she may be a bit too rangy looking.

I like that cock in one of the top pics. Generally, though, I think many of the birds carry their tail at too low an angle, more like the German type.

Bjorn, which birds were you referring to? If you don't know, on this site, that button in the lower right of each post that says QUOTE will copy that post to the reply box. You can select and delete excess pictures and text if you want to make it shorter, but it helps us know which birds/posts you were commenting on.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I think it most always that way with new animal breeders. It is easiest to learn the fine points of a breed. Most usually, I think other breeders teach newcomers by fault-finding, using the minor hallmarks as examples. So the newcomers start out with wrong thinking, both fault-finding ( instead of virtue -appreciating) and studying the minor hallmarks ( instead of the balance and symmetry of overall breed type).
Best,
Karen

Perhaps an explanation would be the SOP? The SOP, in talking about points, doesn't talk about getting points for this or that, it talks about docking points. Some people might take this to an extreme and only look for faults in their birds.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Bjorn, which birds were you referring to? If you don't know, on this site, that button in the lower right of each post that says QUOTE will copy that post to the reply box. You can select and delete excess pictures and text if you want to make it shorter, but it helps us know which birds/posts you were commenting on.

Maryhysong, he was referring to the birds you had just posted.

 

[Tailfeathers]

Have not noticed if the cushion in the topline dissappears when her tail is held higher but will see if I can get a picture of her with tail up and examine - thank you for the good words on the cockeral...only problem is...still very little comb and wattle...has anyone on here had their cockerals mature (comb/wattles) really slowly? Is there anything I can do or feed to help with that? (is it okay to ask that in this forum?)

Those birds are still too young to tell anything for sure yet. Wellies are great about maintaining a "teenager" look - just immature looking - and then all of a sudden within 2-3 weeks will change dramatically and really start taking on a much more mature look to them. This really became evident to me in some of the juveniles I have down in the lower coop. I've been watching many of them with an eye that said they weren't long from the crockpot but in just the last week, I'm seeing a lot of the things that stood out disappear.

There must be something wrong with my computer or monitor or something because the cockerel pic is so blurry I can't hardly make it out. So, with that being said, the my advice on the comment about the comb and wattles, in addition to what's already been said about not being overly concerned with the "small stuff", is to definitely not be concerned about the comb and wattles. Most of what I've seen in the Wellie males is too large of a comb and wattles.

Two weeks ago I lost the best Type'd male I've ever had. I actually was going out to take some pictures of him a little after Noon on Saturday when I noticed a pile of feathers on the way to the chickenyard. After running down the list, I found he was the one missing. His wattles were almost round and definitely "of medium size". As was his comb. Five points that were fairly short and symmetrical on a blade that might have made it to 1" high but I doubt it. He had some color issues but I bred him to 3 of my best hens so am hopeful of some good progeny.

I just let all the birds out of the breeding pens over the last couple of weeks and they're molting now but I will try to get out this weekend and get some pics if I can of some up 'n comers. Thus far I'm seeing 2-3 that are standing out.

Btw,, wrt to the issue of looking at the positives vice the DQ's and faults, I'm one that tends to look at the birds with an eye as to what's wrong. The longer I have to look at a bird to find something the better. If it only takes me a few seconds to note several things wrong, the bird in all likelihood isn't going into a breeding pen. Personally, I don't care if the bird is 99% right if the 1% is a DQ or serious fault, I'm not breeding it. I know it'll never happen but I'm working toward the point where I can't find anything wrong.

I'm wrapped up in several things right now between work and home but I'll try to get back here and post those pics before the thread moves on.

God Bless,