CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

That is a nice cock bird, but I can't tell about the hens.

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Why is there so many problems with the Barnies and Wellies? 22 years ago there was no problem. If someone wants to petition the APA to make a change pm me and I will give you my email address. Be prepared to have compelling reasons for the changes.

Walt

The "problems" or confusion (more correctly, I think) has to do with an omission in the original standard description by Horst. The breast color issue has never been brought up until I saw it here on this site, as I don't know of any breeder who thought it would be an issue. As for the tacitly understood interpretation of the APA's SOP as regards this "problem", I believe judges who refer to "general descriptions" in the SOP do not understand this breed. If more clarification is needed for them to judge the breed, then it SHOULD be included in the SOP description.
Then back to the Barnevelders...that has a lot to do with the fact that two different strains were placed on the qualifying show (German and UK/Dutch). Horst was a German immigrant, and even though he checked the standards of both versions, I believe he submitted what his poultry friends in British Columbia (all of them German immigrants like himself) supported.
Basically, I believe there are lots of issues when one adopts a foreign breed into the APA group. Personally, I would prefer to go with the standard of the country of origin. As for the Welsummers, even the Dutch suggest that the Brits have more of the original type than they themselves have (high tail set, production points). Ours is a conglomerate of different perspectives, and these contentious issues need to be addressed, the sooner the better. In that process, however, please don't make it into a breed that bears no resemblance to what it once was, and please don't overlook the production qualities.
It is in the UK that the egg shell (and productivity) of the Welsummers has been maintained. It is there, I suggest, that the original type has been preserved the best --- not in Holland, not in Germany, not in Denmark or anywhere else. This may have to do with what happened during World War II when so many of the poultry breeds on the European continent were decimated (killed for food in the struggle for human survival).
When all is said and done, this dialogue is important, extremely important, when it comes to establishing this breed in our country. Again, I want to re-emphasize that it is the BREEDERS, not judges or APA members with little knowledge of or experience with the breed that should weigh in on this.
Walt, you may send me a private message if you want to include my input in an APA proposal for a standard revision. I was already involved once before, when the APA decided to change the tail carriage (the German immigrant wanted it changed to the German standard from the original version, and I argued against that change as best I could) when it ended up being some sort of compromise -- 60 degrees.
The "slightly sloping" issue should also be dealt with if a revision is undertaken. Why are birds with a back line more like a shamo or aseel placed on championship row?
Regards to all,
Bjorn

 

[fowlman01]

I have never seen either breed on champion row. Until judges understand them they will never be able to get on champion row. The cock bird above makes a great overall impression but has low wing carriage,a flat spot in the lower chest and probably is too short in the back. Anyone want to comment on the length of back?

w.

 

[faykokoWV]

Speaking of eggs, I think it would be a disservice to discuss this breed without mentioning the egg color. While the eggs aren't judge like Maran eggs or Ameraucana eggs, they are an important factor with this breed. Above are pictures taken for the purpose of creating an egg color chart showing a variety of accepted egg colors for the breed. The one fact we wanted to emphasize ( and this was shown in an earlier pic posted with the pot) is the reddish color of the brown - NOT chocolate brown and NOT coppery brown. Speckles are ok as is solid coloration. Its important that we don't sacrifice egg color as we develop our flock. It has been said that we shouldn't go for the very darkest eggs as typically the darker the egg, the less production. I'd like to hope you can get a productive dark layer though, as long as you don't need more than 4-5 eggs a week out of the bird to be considered productive.

 

[faykokoWV]

Robin, here are the photos you asked me to upload for you.

I thought Ewesheep was going to comment on these, these birds are actually from a
Dutch breeder Harrie Pelgrim. He's been breeding Welsummers for 40 years



here is a picture of a Dutch Exhibition Cockerel shared by the NL Welsummer club, the back line, chest and wing carriage is good, but I don't think this neck would be considered "fairly long and slender" as described in our standard

 

[Piet]

I have never seen either breed on champion row. Until judges understand them they will never be able to get on champion row. The cock bird above makes a great overall impression but has low wing carriage,a flat spot in the lower chest and probably is too short in the back. Anyone want to comment on the length of back?

w.

Go to Holland if you want to see Welsummers or Barnevelders on Champ row, they are super consistent and they know their birds. Germany too, but those go by their own standard. I have read a bit in this thread, but is a complete waste of time and I cannot comment on a birds like the one from Harry as that one is ready to crow and holds his wings extra low, not in a relaxed way. For the APA you want a longer back, for me its just right and still a very young bird. Need the "brick" body shape with round frontend. Sorry I breed to Dutch standards and same with the Barnevelders. In Europe they are also looking at things more openly as the internet opens everything up. They would like to see for the European standard (Europa shows international) each breed judged by the standard of the original country it was developed in. Now since we are talking about a Welsummer in the USA, I am not sure myself what you want to see?

 

[fowlman01]

Speaking of eggs, I think it would be a disservice to discuss this breed without mentioning the egg color. While the eggs aren't judge like Maran eggs or Ameraucana eggs, they are an important factor with this breed. Above are pictures taken for the purpose of creating an egg color chart showing a variety of accepted egg colors for the breed. The one fact we wanted to emphasize ( and this was shown in an earlier pic posted with the pot) is the reddish color of the brown - NOT chocolate brown and NOT coppery brown. Speckles are ok as is solid coloration. Its important that we don't sacrifice egg color as we develop our flock. It has been said that we shouldn't go for the very darkest eggs as typically the darker the egg, the less production. I'd like to hope you can get a productive dark layer though, as long as you don't need more than 4-5 eggs a week out of the bird to be considered productive.

You folks should have egg shows, It is a great way to promote the breed and they can be sent to a show for judging Peter Ovalle has done a great job with this for the Marans club. The British are big in this and have egg shows for Wellies, It is a good way to get this breed in the public eye and at the same time help insure good egg color. Walt

 

[FlashPointFarm]

You folks should have egg shows, It is a great way to promote the breed and they can be sent to a show for judging
Peter Ovalle has done a great job with this for the Marans club. The British are big in this and have egg shows for Wellies, It is a good way to get this breed in the public eye and at the same time help insure good egg color.

Walt

There is an egg competition at the Iowa State Fair this year in August. I'll let you all know how it goes.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Yes, yes, yes!!

I wish all the breeders would show the wings like this! It is so instructive. Esp. when the SOP explains about how such and such feathers should have such and such colors, placed here and there.
Thank you!
Karen

 

[Tailfeathers]

I'm way behind again as this thread is moving FAST. Perhaps I will find this already addressed but to quick points before I move on and don't remember to address them if they haven't been.

One, the important thing to remember about leg color is NOT that it lightens up with age, or can be affected by feed, or any of the such. The most important thing to remember is that the yellow leg gene is recessive AND sex-linked. Meaning that the female does not pass the yellow leg gene down to her daughters. Only sons. Males pass to both. So if one isn't paying attention and starts breeding a homozygous white legged cockbird, they will wind up with a whole flock of white legged Wellies.

Two, I will have to go read my SOP again (believe it or not I don't have it committed to memory!) but my memory - which isn't very good (and why I don't commit things to it) tells me that "shafting" referred to a different color of the main shaft of the feather. This is easily seen on the back where the shaft of the feather is a completely different color that the peppered partridge feathers. On the breast, I will have to go out and look again but I think what you're seeing in the pics is simply a distinction where the barbules are coming off the quill on opposite side making the quill stand out more and the quill is actually the same color as the barbules.

God Bless,