CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[Happy Chooks]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess I'm struggling between graceful uniform sweep and still having a full tail. Those that have a tail like the 2nd rooster, tend to be more thin in fullness from what I've seen. My prior rooster had a tail like the 2nd.

 

[Happy Chooks]

I totally disagree.  I think the bird with the higher tail is the better one.  50 degrees should be the ideal, and the one with the higher tail set still does not show more than 40 - 45 degrees.  

Which bird do you think has the better tail Bjorn? I'm not sure from your post.

 

[Wishing4Wings]

I think #2 and #6 are the same bird. He has a much rounder looking breast in the second pic, but the same dip in the center of the comb, flat back and low tail with the 2 feathers jutting up past the top sickles. Just turning toward the camera that little bit makes him look like a very different bird. It's no wonder they use illustrations in the Standard.


#2


#6

 

[Wishing4Wings]

I am putting up a a series of pictures of Barnevelder roosters covering a wide range of birds that have come through my pens over the years. Some are from what I consider too dark all the way to what I consider to bee too red for the American standard. Also look for different tails, white fluff, combs etc. There is no lacing on the breasts of these birds, you may detect at best a fleck of ground color here and there. There are pictured here pure Johan, KC x Ledford cross, Johan x Ledford cross. I am not going to go over which is which, I am just putting these up so the thread has some fodder for discussion.

Have at it.

Andy


#1


#2


#3




#4


#5


#6


#7


#8

I started reading this thread to see what makes a good bird, and am finding it fascinating. Checked out a copy of the SOP from the public library, but am having difficulty with the qualitative descriptions such as a "neat skull" as these guys are supposed to have. Can anyone describe a "neat skull" and how to recognize one that is not neat?

Based on what I've read, and relying heavily on the SOP illustration, I like #1 and #3.

#1 has a nice balanced U shape in the sweep of his back and tail, and he is carrying his wings high. He looks broad across the body too. Neck might be a bit thick/short? but he is moving, so hard to tell. Tail could be a bit longer and fuller. The feather undercolor is supposed to be dark slate, so the white showing is off.

#3 is holding his neck and head up with a nice clean face. Wattles might be a little long? instead of "medium." He has a nice U shape, but tail could be more upright. He looks nice and wide in the pic, but could be a bit fuller/rounder under the tail. Tail could be more upright and wings held higher.

Both birds seem too dark in color, but computer pics are too unreliable.

Okay, now tell me where I've gone wrong.

Some general questions: When breeding, which traits are harder to "fix" (ie tail set, wing carriage, comb, head shape)? Are some traits passed more reliably than others? For example, can you really breed a good comb or is it more a matter of luck (and maybe why not worth as many points in judging)?

 

[pysankigirl]

#1

I actually like this guy's shape...not sure if it is the perfect barnevelder shape but I like the combination of masculilne breadth of chest and the "u" line of the neck and tail. I would take him off your hands...LOL

#3


This guy of all of them I think has the best Barnevelder shape and I love his tail. but yeah, he's a little dark.

#4


#5


this guy is gorgeous except for the tail. this is a similar tailset to the guys I have that I don't think is quite right...it doesn't do the graceful "u" shape that to me epitomizes the barnevelder silhouette. but he has a lovely wide chest. I am not sure how wide a chest a barnevelder is supposed to have but I love a wide chest in any bird. (and on guys, but you said we weren't supposed to critique the guy bringing the feed)

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Okay so not an expert at all, so all of this is GUT reaction:

#1: Nice tail angle and back line, but the tail does not look very full (and also has that white/light fluff at the base). Is the tail fully grown out? He seems young to me.
#3: Nice back line, but tail a wee bit low perhaps. Seems a bit dark (hackle) and comb might be better. Nice bird otherwise though. I would use him.
#7: Hard to tell about the tail angle as the bird does not show a complete profile (though it looks a bit low). Other than the comb blade fault, I like this cock bird a lot, and I would use him although comb faults are hard to breed out.
Just finished rereading the booklet "De Barnevelder vroeger en nu" ("The Barnevelder of the past and the present") of the Dutch Poultry Club and studied the various issues raised in this publication. The winning birds pictured all have a relatively higher tail set than what most of what I have seen here in the US. Photos from winning birds at recent shows in The Netherlands more recently, however, also show Barnevelders with a lower tail set than those pictured in this publication. By the way, this booklet was the result of the collaborative work of the famous late Barnevelder breeders L.T. Oskam, D. Overeem, et al.

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Which bird do you think has the better tail Bjorn? I'm not sure from your post.

Check my response to the 7 photos.
Greetings,
Bjorn

 

[Lacy Blues]

Comb faults are really not all that difficult to breed out. When I started, every single one of my andalusians had serrated blades on combs with too many points. You do need to have at least one hen that has a nice smooth blade and too few points to breed to (or vice versa). Keep doing that and in a couple years, you will see improvement.

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Comb faults are really not all that difficult to breed out. When I started, every single one of my andalusians had serrated blades on combs with too many points. You do need to have at least one hen that has a nice smooth blade and too few points to breed to (or vice versa). Keep doing that and in a couple years, you will see improvement.

Yes, correcting comb faults is possible, but often a several-generation issue. Certain comb faults are VERY difficult to breed out (side sprigs is certainly a challenge, and "overgrown" comb--going way down on the beak, along with wrinkles and twists. I have had good luck with the number of points, but not with any of those other items. I also see that a poor blade keeps coming back. So I must admit that these observations are based on the experience I myself (along with many others, though) have made over the years; and these experiences may be "tainted" by the genetic material I started out with. Finally, though, I do think that the good Barnevelder comb is a challenge to achieve.

 

[Robert Blosl]

looks like you are getting good responses on this breed I will sit back and learn. bob