Cubalaya Thread For Sharing Pics and Discussing Our Birds

[saladin]

15 week cockerel
(jungle this may help? you to see the difference in the chicks)

 

[Jungleexplorer]

Okay. I have no idea what I am looking for so I am going to put the pictures side by side and let someone explain it to me.


Your cockerel at 15 weeks Welp cockerel at 17 weeks.


These two birds do not even like like they are of the same breed. Almost none of the colors match, but it could just be the lighting. The leg color seems to be the same and the head shape is similar. I was worried about about the Welp birds not having the red eyes, but I don't see any red in your birds eye either, so maybe that comes with age. As far tails, well I think that is the biggest difference.

I am really confused here. I am trying desperately to learn, but I am getting inconsistent information. Cubakid, when you critiqued the last pictures of the Welp cockerel I posted, you said that the wings were, "round, larger and held to high and that the tails were short. When I look at that same picture (below), and compare it to the picture Doc posted, it confuses me. The wings are far lower on the Welp bird then the one Doc posted. An the tail is much longer and fuller. True the bird below is 5 weeks older, but even the one that is only two weeks older (above) still has a much longer tail.
I am not trying to start anything. I am just trying to learn. The only thing that I know at this point is that all of you breeders know what you are doing and I don't. But it seems that the more I try to specifically narrow down what I need to know to progress, the more confused I get.


I have some of my own chicks that are starting to look better. I may post some pics later. I am sorry for all the questions guys. I am really trying hard to learn here. I want to be able to speak knowledgeably on the subject of cubalayas.

 

[saladin]

lol jungle, nobody is going to take in offense. honest.

Your birds are not bad; please don't think we meant that; just different.

Difference:
Mine: head is shorter/wider
body is more 'cobby': not as much leg
wings tend to drop with age; you want it covering the hocks but not any lower.

I think your tails are going to be long but doubt they'll be 'full.' I could be wrong.

Cubes develop very slowly. That said, there are certain 'predictors' you can look for like:
light colored hackle, tail carried down (the earlier the better though some 'drop' in their second year), short beak, eye should be red by 10 weeks (actually mine are but the bright sunlight makes them appear less red than they are in a photo), main sickle feathers develop last not first. note that the neck on mine doesn't have the 'skinny' appearance of yours: you don't want a skinny neck like you see in a young asil or malay, white leggs are a given in bbr, white, red pyle, blue red; slate legs in blue and black (crow-wings).

does this help?

 

[cubakid]

Your birds have been raised quite differently I might add as well. Mine do not get the space that yours have. Your birds seem to be conditioned at a young age. Mine will not have the vibrancy of color and lushness of feather until about 6 months. This way all thier protein is used to build weight. When I mentioned the wings it was just my personal observation of the first male pictured above near docs. The second of yours in that post is much better.

 

[gallorojo]

I agree with everything Doc has said about what to look for in young birds.

I personally look for a dolphin fluke like tail, with 2 lobes, on young birds as a sign that the tail will have the correct spread, the fantail form if you will. Pinched or vertically folded tails tend to look more like a single clump and don't have the lobes, the double tail look. I also want low tails early if possible, that would be my additions. Doc's birds I will say in my opinion have the best heads in the country right now, and a lot of work has gone into selecting good heads. Too me it seems heads can be improved easier compared to some other things though....

I wanted to add that I really don't see anything "wrong" with either of the 2 birds posted up in the comparison, to me they are just different. The finer details of final tail shape and wing carriage, even color to some extent, are hard to determine early in my opinion. The comparison is an interesting one, and useful, but I think it's wrong to think that your birds are necessarily less right, Jungle. Most of the BB Reds I've raised looked similar to yours at the same age. I have seen a lot of pictures lately of young German birds,and, they don't resemble Docs youngsters all that much, or yours, Jungle. I find that the differences between the strains in Cubalayas is quite pronounced, more so than in some other breeds. The Standard is fairly specific, yes, but there is still room for an individual breeders artistic interpretation, as Doc so often says.. The standard calls for a short beak, but how short is short? How long are moderate legs? What angle should the back and tail be at below the horizontal? 15 degrees, or 40 degrees? In the end the adult bird is what needs to match the standard, and there is some "wiggle room" in the Standard. It's good to pay attention to your birds as they grow, and to cull early and often if possible, but, ultimately, you have to raise a bunch over several years to know what to look for. I will admit freely I made stupid choices the first 2 years, maybe 3, I was breeding, because I just didn't know exactly what to look for. I feel like I'm just starting to get a real firm grasp on what to select, and a good understanding of everything in the last year or 2, took me 4 or 5 years to learn by doing. Keep asking questions, keep paying attention, but don't sweat anything too much just yet. It all takes time for most people.

 

[gallorojo]

I have never competed and have no idea how shows works, so I have a question (a lot of them, actually. But those will come later). When I was at the show in Shawnee, OK, the birds were classified into groups, such as, "Continental" and others I can't remember and don't understand. When you say that he (Schmudde) showed his Cubalayas, was he showing them as Cubalayas or as something else (Oriental or something)? I only ask this because there were thousands of birds at the show in Shawnee, Oklahoma. I looked all over and could not find the Cubalayas or even a place for them. When I ask the judges about this, I got some strange looks and what seemed like some snickers. I got the feeling that the judges felt that Cubalayas were a joke and I was a joke for asking about them.

I am just talking out of complete ignorance (lack of knowledge and experience) here; but it seems to me that if there were no Cubalayas being showed at a show as large as the one in Shawnee, that either, you would have to show your bird in another category or you would have no competition and would win by default regardless of SOP because you have no other birds to compete with. I guess because I have no experience here, I tend to question the validity of someone winning a show with a Cubalaya when there is little or no real competition. But I say again, I don't know the show system and how judging works. Like for instance, when I was at the show in OK, a woman I met there was upset with the judges because they disqualified her bird because of weight. She had the SOP book open and the weight of her bird was up to SOP, but they still disqualified her bird. I felt the judges were very arrogant and looked down their noses at everyone else. I was turned off by their attitude. I thought, "You are a chicken judge, not the Queen of England . For crying out loud! Get of your high horse and act like a normal human."

Jungle , I wanted to address your remarks about showing. Cubalayas are in the AOSB class, the All Other Standard Breeds miscellaneous group. Schmudde showed his birds as Cubalayas, not as Orientals. I think when you asked the Judges and they snickered or gave you funny looks, that was rude and inappropriate. There are good and bad Judges, and some know and love the breed, and some don't...I wish personal feelings or experiences with a breed didn't matter, but, they clearly do. Some breeders try to avoid showing a breed if the Judge is one who dislikes their breed...and, conversely, if you know that a Judge loves and keeps your chosen breed, you might be wise to be sure and enter that breed in the show they are judging!! I also did want to add that it can be taken as poor etiquette to talk to or in any way bother Judges while they are " working", just something else to consider....Cubalayas are not a joke, and the Judges were probably snickering at you as a newbie, not the breed, which, as I've stated, is rude anyway you want to look at it. Cubalayas WIN shows in this area routinely!! WINNERS are no joke!

Regarding the lack of competition when showing Cubalayas- OK, so, when you show, it goes by sex and age, color variety, breed, then class. So, if you were the only person who entered Cubalayas in your local show, then, yes, you would win best of breed by default as long as your birds don't have disqualifications. It's unfortunately easy to be disqualified however, so, if you are not disqualified outright, then you have birds that basically meet the Standard, which, is certainly good to know and worth being proud of in itself. The real competition is in winning the Class in my opinion, that is usually very hard to do, and is a real accomplishment. When I say Cubalayas win around here, I mean winning the class or the whole show. There is only one way to show or one category to show them in, with such a rare breed, the competition really is vs. the other breeds in the class, and in the show, rather than within the breed.

I should also add the judges around here never even bring up weight, nor are birds weighed anymore , for better or worse. The only birds I've ever seen disqualified due to weight were bantams that were way too large, never seen it even discussed in large fowl. You should know that there are regional differences in showing, around here, the American, Mediterranean, and Continental classes are usually poorly represented, and some breeds I would not consider rare I literally have never seen shown. We have some awesome breeders of Asiatic, AOSB, and English classes, and some great breeders of a few selected breeds in the other classes. I know in some areas the American class is huge, and AOSB poorly represented...it all depends, every area is different.

 

[tigercreek]

This is some of the most informative posts I've read in this thread. Thanks to all y'all.....stan

 

[gallorojo]

Ok, I finally got photobucket to work on here. Pictures are of my Blue/Black project birds around 17 weeks old.

 

[gallorojo]

Advertisement from 1999 Poultry Press for Castagnetti Cubalayas. Thanks to Saladin for sending me the picture. I would have posted it earlier except I could not figure out how to get photobucket to work!!

 

[Felix1]

What is usually graded in to get the blue color?