Curiosity has the best of me - Vegetarians.

[thaiturkey]

Quote:

Thats funny, over in India the same "god" said to not eat cows... Cows are sacred and should not be eaten....!!!

Anyway... I am so so tired of the religious hupla everywhere I go on here these days..

It is very very hard for me to leave religious statements made as some kind of "fact" alone... As they are only "fact" to the followers of the given religion or sect of the given religion.... Please realize it is a big world out there, with lots of different beliefs...

Me too. Religious debate here always seems to end in locked threads and yet people get away with poking silly little religious jibes under my nose all the time. Let's either have a religious free-for-all knockaround or have all the religious signatures and comments banned. One way or the other. I am offended when people push their particular god up my nose. It's presumptuous and arrogant.

For the time being, I will just say that I don't allow my life be ruled by books that were written for semi-literate people (surely most were completely illiterate) thousands of years ago and subject to subsequent incorrect translation, editing and omission and misinterpretation. Why should my health be ruled by a philosophy for which there is no proof of the existence of its main subjects. The Old Testament advocates 'an eye for an eye' but I hope that some of us have progressed beyond that. We now have fridges in which to keep pork so the health risk behind ancient religious dogma no longer exists for me.

Any logical case in favour of vegetarianism must be based on health grounds and, if you will, animal welfare. It's worthy of debate because of the dangers of poor diet, vegetarian or other. We even might widen the discussion to include the practicality of us all turning veggie. Animals scoop up stuff that we won't eat. Vegetables and fruit (ever meet a fruitatarian?) take up a lot of land. Is there enough good agricultural land to feed the world and who owns it?

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
A small flock of chickens or small herd of goats, helps the human be the most efficient as possible in my opinion. I think if we look at poor tribes or groups just barley avoiding starvation you find a domesticated animal or two...

ON

TT, and everyone else I am very sorry if I opened the "flood gates" on the religion thing.... Mod's feel free to delete my post I do not want to start heated debate.. But I do feel the same as Thaiturkey on the subject..)

 

[redhen]

Quote:
A small flock of chickens or small herd of goats, helps the human be the most efficient as possible in my opinion. I think if we look at poor tribes or groups just barley avoiding starvation you find a domesticated animal or two...

ON

TT, and everyone else I am very sorry if I opened the "flood gates" on the religion thing.... Mod's feel free to delete my post I do not want to start heated debate.. But I do feel the same as Thaiturkey on the subject..)

I agree.. enough is enough already... i'm tired of it also..

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
A small flock of chickens or small herd of goats, helps the human be the most efficient as possible in my opinion. I think if we look at poor tribes or groups just barley avoiding starvation you find a domesticated animal or two...

ON

TT, and everyone else I am very sorry if I opened the "flood gates" on the religion thing.... Mod's feel free to delete my post I do not want to start heated debate.. But I do feel the same as Thaiturkey on the subject..)

I think that perhaps the poor tribes and groups can teach us a thing or two. If their diet isn't reasonably well balanced they die. Most, it seems to me, are not vegetarian. Could the reason be that it's difficult to get a veggie. protein balance other than from vegetables that have been force fed with chemicals or genetically modified?

I'm sorry too. You scratched an itch that's been bothering me for some time. Respect for the beliefs of others is a two sided thing and I sometimes think that it's not there.

 

[AndreaS]

In respect to the China Report. Had anyone got their hands on the actual report? I had heard that the widely available book based on it was slightly stanted? I've been wanting to read the actual research for quite some time.

I also wonder if in the study there was any correlation between the increased consumption of beef being because intensive farming practices made beef more widely available....?

I think we all agree, vegetarian or not, that factory farmed meat is not good for you.

I just heard on NPR last week that small time hog farmers are going out of business in China due to not being able to compete with the large feedlot farms.

Has anyone following this thread read Weston Price's study of the diets of primitive cultures? It's an interesting read.

I like to read information available on nutrition, but I don't put 100% faith in any one philosophy, except maybe that the closer something is to natural, something my great great grandparents would have eaten, the better.

And in regards to eating animals that eat things we wouldn't.....my vegetables in my garden do a great job of converting my chickens poop (which I certainly would not eat) into nutritious food for me

Anyway, nutritional beliefs can be quite a bit like religious ones I think. We hold on to them very tightly, and every belief has information available to back it up. You can find so much conflicting research from the "experts" out there. My approach with nutrition tends to be the same as my spiritual approach. Do what feels best to me, through my individual experience of the natural world, and leave the established stuff with It's experts and rules to those who seek it.

Sorry this thread has gotten so far off topic!

 

[Hillsvale]

Quote:
A small flock of chickens or small herd of goats, helps the human be the most efficient as possible in my opinion. I think if we look at poor tribes or groups just barley avoiding starvation you find a domesticated animal or two...

ON

TT, and everyone else I am very sorry if I opened the "flood gates" on the religion thing.... Mod's feel free to delete my post I do not want to start heated debate.. But I do feel the same as Thaiturkey on the subject..)

I think that perhaps the poor tribes and groups can teach us a thing or two. If their diet isn't reasonably well balanced they die. Most, it seems to me, are not vegetarian. Could the reason be that it's difficult to get a veggie. protein balance other than from vegetables that have been force fed with chemicals or genetically modified?

I'm sorry too. You scratched an itch that's been bothering me for some time. Respect for the beliefs of others is a two sided thing and I sometimes think that it's not there.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
No I have not read it.... What is your take on the study?

Yes that is my point having some livestock around completes the circle of total utilization, hence least waste.

I too value my chicken poop.

I absolutly love the concept that nothing has left the planet or for that matter your back yard. One can maintain a closed loop continually regenerating system in your back yard if you are mindful. It is a matter of re-purposing the "energy". Sun and soil give energy to plants, animals eat the plants, poop out nutrients that replenish soil. Animal is eaten or dies and it again puts back what it took from the soil.

The simple beauty of the natural cycle is spiritual for me. Knowing I am part of this is all I need.

This gets me thinking about food chains....Which is a good environmental argument for eating less meat. I recall seeing a recent National Geographic, demonstrating how eating one top of the food chain Tuna is like eating many tons of smaller fish. Us top of the food chain creatures need to be mindful of our impacts on the eco system. Especially since we do not practice composting the deceased, nor do we regularly recycle human waste in our culture.. (We just take, take take..)

ON

 

[shortstaque]

Back to the original question. I was raised on a farm and have no problems with the humane raising and slaughter of animals. However, for at least 5 years of my life I did not eat any animal proteins. So not even milk, butter, or cheese. I did it for health reasons, not for ethical reasons. I ran a marathon during that time and was (for me) more physically fit. My diet consisted of a large range of whole grains, legumes, nuts, and obviously fruits and vegetables. I eshewed any processed foods. For the last 5 years I slowly added meat back into my diet but I will not eat any meat that is not either organic or from a local source that I know and trust, hence my chickens. I really respect when anyone does research and makes a conscious decision to eat in a particular way, be it based upon health, religious, or ethical grounds. Not every diet is good for every person. Many people who discount the reasons why others make specific dietary choices don't question their own dietary choices and end up eating in a very unhealthy matter. Just because it comes in a package with the words HEALTHY, NATURAL, FAT FREE doesn't mean its good for you, in fact most things with those attributes don't come in packages, other than the ones nature gave them.

BTW homosapiens are naturally omnivores, not carnivores as I saw somewhere at the beginning of this thread. I think it would drive me crazy not to be able to eat any vegetable matter. The Eskimos came the closest to eating that diet, but it just doesn't sound very interesting to me.

 

[matthewschickens]

Quote:
Thats funny, over in India the same "god" said to not eat cows... Cows are sacred and should not be eaten....!!!

Anyway... I am so so tired of the religious hupla everywhere I go on here these days..

It is very very hard for me to leave religious statements made as some kind of "fact" alone... As they are only "fact" to the followers of the given religion or sect of the given religion.... Please realize it is a big world out there, with lots of different beliefs...

"Funny" you may say... "funny" it is not.
There is only one true God. Jesus. No other exists. Beliefs you may say, beliefs there are, but more than one being true.. No.

If you would like to debate this with me I'll be happy to do it.. Elsewhere.

Matthew

 

[TreeHugger]

I didn't read all the posts but....

I was raised on a farm and stopped eating meat at the age of 18. I do eat eggs and diary products. It was for animal welfare after years of going to animal auctions and seeing half starved beaten down animals ran through the ring. My parents treated the animals we had very well but I couldn't say the same for everyone else. I've lived almost 20 years that way with no ill effects and I don't crave steaks - in fact I don't even consider it when I order something off the menu.

I had a co-worker ask me what I would do if I was starving and had no other option, my response is that they would be on the menu. We live in a country of fast food and over-indulgence. I don't eat meat because I don't have to. I'm sure most people in the U.S. would refuse to eat cat, dog or horse but that doesn't mean you won't find it on the menu in some countries.

Everyone is diffent, the world would be a boring place otherwise.....