Dairy Goats -- Suggestions, please!

[MrsKemmerlin]

We are currently fencing off a pasture for dairy goats!

And being a future new goat owner I have some questions, of course! Housing is on my brain right now... I plan to have the buck so we don't have to worry with that... but that is what I need some help with from you lovely people!

I've seen time and time again that the buck should be away from where the milking will take place - fine, I totally get that. BUTTTTTT... how far is far enough? Do the bucks have to be separated from the does all the time or only when they have kids? If all the time, would a wether make a good companion for the buck? Or are there other suggestions that could potentially work out better? We like to make an effort of keeping animals that have a job of some sort- I feel a wether would be around just to eat, haha!

I am on the fence about getting Nigerian Dwarfs or Nubians - the versatility of what I can do with the milk is why these two are what I've narrowed it down to. With the Nigerian Dwarfs, I feel I would have to have multiple females to supply enough milk so companions would not be an issue with the does, the size is appealing to us going down that road. However, with the Nubians I would start with only one doe since the amount of milk produced is so much higher, which milking one doe versus multiple is appealing... but then I need companions for both the buck and the doe

Your suggestions? Expierence? ...am I making this much more difficult than I should be?

 

[chooks4life]

We are currently fencing off a pasture for dairy goats!

And being a future new goat owner I have some questions, of course! Housing is on my brain right now... I plan to have the buck so we don't have to worry with that... but that is what I need some help with from you lovely people!

I've seen time and time again that the buck should be away from where the milking will take place - fine, I totally get that. BUTTTTTT... how far is far enough?

I don't know, but 20 feet I'd assume should be good enough.

Do the bucks have to be separated from the does all the time or only when they have kids?

Complicated situation since so much depends on the animals. General answer is yes, separate him till mating times. This has a lot to do with how humans have managed them, you can't just change back to a more natural state overnight without some hiccups. However many people do manage to keep them together without issues and I personally do prefer the natural family unit/social structure of the species being preserved in captivity/domesticity, I find it beneficial on many levels... But that doesn't mean it works for every setup and every flock.

In the wild/feral state they are naturally with the females all the time and this isn't an issue. But the social dynamics and instincts are different too. Under domesticity we've removed and altered some instincts so have to act as the 'stop gap' since we've removed it. The more we interfere, the more they become reliant on our interference, and you can't just go cold turkey on it because many of them won't cope.

Really there's a whole social situation going on there I wish we had more understanding of because I have my own questions about it... I've lived on properties near feral goat herds that nobody tended. They did fine. In domesticity, we separate the buck (and remove the buck kids at quite a young age) because a female can and often does cycle very quickly after birth (some will go immediately) and can get pregnant again very quickly. Too quickly for human convenience or the health/use of the doe.

Buck kids can impregnate their own mothers before they're weaned, the youngest father I've ever heard of was only 6 weeks old, but 3 months is average enough. In the wild, this doesn't tend to happen. Why? I theorize that the more instinctive wild mothers won't tolerate it, and/or, perhaps the constant presence of many mature bucks among the herd acts as a reproductive deterrent to younger males, possibly via hormonal cues or just social interactions. In some species, sexual development to some degree and sexual activity to an often complete degree is suppressed in juveniles in response to the presence and reproductive status of the mature males/females. I've seen that in primitive breed sheep before, the younger rams didn't develop at the normal pace when a mature male was present, and they never attempted to breed a cycling female. Remove the mature male and they instantly kick in.

Certainly practicing removing a natural part of a family situation is proven to spur early sexual maturity and social issues in pretty much every species it's done in.

I've seen sheep and goat herds managed by both separatist and inclusionist methods, and when you include the adult males, the young boys often simply aren't breeding. How/why, I don't know, just that it's uncommon for it to happen, in my experience anyway, and doubtless others have had other experiences. Sounds like a species survival trait, if some catastrophe occurs to all mature males somehow, the juvenile ones had better get into breeding condition rapidly to help prevent extinction.

If all the time, would a wether make a good companion for the buck? Or are there other suggestions that could potentially work out better? We like to make an effort of keeping animals that have a job of some sort- I feel a wether would be around just to eat, haha!

Wethers are generally good companions for bucks, yes. Goats are social animals and keeping an animal happy is a large part of helping assure its health, productivity and longevity. It also keeps their social skills and instincts in decent order which is important, because some over-isolated animals can end up killing their own kind. Goats aren't generally known for this but it's not too uncommon with some other species.

I understand your desire to have only working hands on the farm so to speak, but in perspective, I wouldn't undervalue a wether simply because he can't breed. A social animal kept separate will stress and this can and often does take their immune system down to the point where you can lose the animal simply for want of a companion.

Losing an expensive buck makes a cheap and 'pointless' wether look a lot more valuable, especially if you consider the cost of a wether compared to vet bills trying to stave off disease that's actually caused by the stress of separation anxiety, depression, boredom and plain old loneliness. The wether certainly has a job. Isolated and lonely bucks can develop stereotypies including harmful ones like any bored caged animal, and the manifestation of frustration is usually aggression.

There's probably no better animal suited to the job of being a companion to a buck that must be kept separate, because a female goat might be harassed to a troublesome degree by the buck, and any other species might make an okay friend but there's no companion like your own species for almost all animals. Sometimes you get exceptions like goats bonded to llamas or donkeys or sheep.

I am on the fence about getting Nigerian Dwarfs or Nubians - the versatility of what I can do with the milk is why these two are what I've narrowed it down to. With the Nigerian Dwarfs, I feel I would have to have multiple females to supply enough milk so companions would not be an issue with the does, the size is appealing to us going down that road. However, with the Nubians I would start with only one doe since the amount of milk produced is so much higher, which milking one doe versus multiple is appealing... but then I need companions for both the buck and the doe

To get a milking doe generally you need her to have been pregnant (some do start milking without that, some does of dairy breeds (and even some males) are born already lactating)... If you source a female that's not pregnant, you can get her pregnant and then share the milk with the bub until you wean it and then keep milking her, and she can have that for a companion. Or you might prefer to get a doe with a weaned kid already at foot, but still in milk, I see them advertised not too uncommonly. When life gets busy milking an animal twice a day can be too much all of a sudden.

Go with what goat you like, and the logistics will seem easier if you enjoy the type more, generally. Many farmers reckon to get animals you like the look of, because you're going to be looking at them a lot, and you must give them a good overlooking regularly to spot problems, so it helps if you really like their appearance. Minigoats are my preference since they're easier to contain, generally, but there's always the exception to the rule of course. Companions will be necessary for full quality of life for them anyway, whether you get big or small goats.

Your suggestions? Expierence? ...am I making this much more difficult than I should be?

I think if you remain a bit open minded about things and experiment a bit, that will answer a lot of your questions. Goat husbandry is much of a muchness for large or small goats, so if you have a good idea of the basics, you can take your time figuring out what suits your situation.

You can't really reduce animals to numbers and remain decently humane, and what's humane for one animal can be inhumane for another as weird as that may sound, (for example some bucks don't mind being alone or just don't react obviously badly so it's not always inhumane to keep a social animal alone) so finding both the type of goat, and the nature of goat that suits your circumstances will really pay off.

Best wishes.