DE, PDZ, or pigeon dressing?

[SirBroderick]

I have been unable to buy any DE in South Australia but I have found a supplier who can get Pigeon dressing.
Is this the same as DE?
Is it OK to use in my chook house on the poop board?
Or... does any South Aussie BYC member know where I can get some DE?!
Regards Sir Broderick & my girls

 

[iwiw60]

I have been unable to buy any DE in South Australia but I have found a supplier who can get Pigeon dressing.
Is this the same as DE?
Is it OK to use in my chook house on the poop board?
Or... does any South Aussie BYC member know where I can get some DE?!
Regards Sir Broderick & my girls

I am NOT a fan of the use of DE in any form around chickens...too many "if's" ... just not worth the risk for me. I use Sweet PDZ Granular in my roost bar/poop tray...here's a pic of it:



I used one bag of sand for the bottom layer, and over top a bag of Sweet PDZ Granular...daily poop patrol is a snap. I use one of those kitty litter scoops (you can just see it up there on the left), 3-4 minutes...DONE!! And my coop smells so fresh, too!

Do some research on DE here at BYC...I think you'll come to the same conclusion I did when thinking about its use....wishing you all the best!!

 

[SirBroderick]

Hi iwiw60,

Thanks for your reply.
I have searched and read about DE on BYC.
I didn't find or read any negative discussion about this?
I invite you to direct me to any of these please as I do not want to cause my girls distress.
Compliments to you on you poop shelf & setup... Very impressive!
I got the idea for poop shelf from BYC and clean it up each morning.
I was able to get a couple of bags of DE freighted over to Adelaide but that was an expense I'd rather avoid and buy local!
Is PDZ called just that or other names in the fodder stores?

Regards Sir Broderick

 

[iwiw60]

Hi iwiw60,

Thanks for your reply.
I have searched and read about DE on BYC.
I didn't find or read any negative discussion about this?
I invite you to direct me to any of these please as I do not want to cause my girls distress.

Regards Sir Broderick

Regarding DE, here's an excerpt from Dr. Mike Petrik, DVM, MSc:

"The question regarding diatomaceous earth is almost a question of philosophy. Many people are of the mindset that "natural" is better, and that there is an automatic benefit to anything that is found in the dirt, plants or animals around us. I (being trained in a western medical-type program) don't believe this to be the truth. Diatomaceous earth (DE) is a great example of this. DE is fossilized algae. Translated, it is ~90% silica (sand), 2-4% alumina (a component of aluminum), and 0.5-2% iron oxide (rust). I can find the same stuff on the floor of any autobody repair shop...as the result of sandblasting old cars.

The theory is that DE is dehydrating because of the sand content, and because the algae are microscopically jagged, they scratch the waxy coating on parasites, allowing them to be killed by dehydrating the worm, tick, cocci or flea. It is touted as a "natural" worming medication and external parasite medication. What you need to realize is that the gut is full of water (making it very hard to dehydrate anything), and that it takes a long exposure time to kill multicellular (ie ticks and mites) parasites.

I'm also a little leery of any product that claims to do everything....diatomaceous earth claims to be useful in animals, on animals, in the walls of barns, coops and houses, as a pasture treatment, in the yard and garden, and as a treatment for granaries. DE kills bacteria, viruses, absorbs and neutralizes mercury, eliminates drug residues, absorbs organophosphate pesticides, etc, etc. Really? To be honest, all the scientific literature is very equivocal on the usefulness. Some studies find "trends", but very little statistical significance, some studies say that DE is poorly effective at a relative humidity above 85%. One study showed more parasites in one breed of hen fed DE, and less parasites in another breed of hen fed DE.

At the end of the day, my feeling is that, if you want to treat the parasites in your flock, use a treatment that works....has been designed to work, and has been proven to work. A well-conceived parasite program that uses different classes of drugs, observes withdrawal times, and will effectively control parasites as well as resistance.

I don't believe that there is much risk in using DE in your hens, but I am afraid that you may believe that you are controlling parasites when, in fact, you are mostly feeding sand. I apologize to any "anti-drug" advocates that may be offended by my stance in this regard, but I have seen too many instances of treatments that served only to allow animals to suffer infections until regular treatments are finally commenced."

Dr. Mike Petrik, DVM, MSc,
The Chicken Vet
=================================
As for the PDZ, here is a pic of what the bag looks like so you can reference it when searching:


As far as I'm aware, this is the only product of its kind, there are no substitutes. If you are able to locate it make sure it is the GRANULAR.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Regarding DE, here's an excerpt from Dr. Mike Petrik, DVM, MSc:

"The question regarding diatomaceous earth is almost a question of philosophy. Many people are of the mindset that "natural" is better, and that there is an automatic benefit to anything that is found in the dirt, plants or animals around us. I (being trained in a western medical-type program) don't believe this to be the truth. Diatomaceous earth (DE) is a great example of this. DE is fossilized algae. Translated, it is ~90% silica (sand), 2-4% alumina (a component of aluminum), and 0.5-2% iron oxide (rust). I can find the same stuff on the floor of any autobody repair shop...as the result of sandblasting old cars.

The theory is that DE is dehydrating because of the sand content, and because the algae are microscopically jagged, they scratch the waxy coating on parasites, allowing them to be killed by dehydrating the worm, tick, cocci or flea. It is touted as a "natural" worming medication and external parasite medication. What you need to realize is that the gut is full of water (making it very hard to dehydrate anything), and that it takes a long exposure time to kill multicellular (ie ticks and mites) parasites.

I'm also a little leery of any product that claims to do everything....diatomaceous earth claims to be useful in animals, on animals, in the walls of barns, coops and houses, as a pasture treatment, in the yard and garden, and as a treatment for granaries. DE kills bacteria, viruses, absorbs and neutralizes mercury, eliminates drug residues, absorbs organophosphate pesticides, etc, etc. Really? To be honest, all the scientific literature is very equivocal on the usefulness. Some studies find "trends", but very little statistical significance, some studies say that DE is poorly effective at a relative humidity above 85%. One study showed more parasites in one breed of hen fed DE, and less parasites in another breed of hen fed DE.

At the end of the day, my feeling is that, if you want to treat the parasites in your flock, use a treatment that works....has been designed to work, and has been proven to work. A well-conceived parasite program that uses different classes of drugs, observes withdrawal times, and will effectively control parasites as well as resistance.

I don't believe that there is much risk in using DE in your hens, but I am afraid that you may believe that you are controlling parasites when, in fact, you are mostly feeding sand. I apologize to any "anti-drug" advocates that may be offended by my stance in this regard, but I have seen too many instances of treatments that served only to allow animals to suffer infections until regular treatments are finally commenced."

Dr. Mike Petrik, DVM, MSc,
The Chicken Vet
=================================
....

I wish to call your attention to the last sentence in Dr. Petrik's testimony.
When one feels that they must apologize in advance for saying something contrary to someone's homeopathic beliefs, then those homeopathic beliefs are likely a bigger problem than the ill the homeopath relief is touted as curing.

People come to this sight to gain knowledge about small scale poultry husbandry, and if they leave here ill informed it doesn't help them or their birds, in most cases it just fattens the wallets of some mountebank.

Here is a good experiment, put a cupful of DE in a clean quart jar. The add a heaping teaspoon full of fire ants. Secure the jar with a top. Shake to combine. Set the jar aside in a shady spot. I'll bet that at the end of 24 hours you're going to have a heaping teaspoon full of ticked off fire ants.

 

[enola]

I agree with you about the DE.

Just one question. How do you go about getting fire ants to go into a jar with biting the crap out of you??

 

[SirBroderick]

Good news, I have been able to make contact with an Australian company who manufactures zeolite.
They have directed me to a South Australian contact who will (hopefully) organise a couple of bags at a not too bad price.
Thank you for your detailed and informative discussions.
Regards Sir Broderick

 

[SirBroderick]

PS...!?
What would happen to all the fire ants?

 

[iwiw60]

Good news, I have been able to make contact with an Australian company who manufactures zeolite.
They have directed me to a South Australian contact who will (hopefully) organise a couple of bags at a not too bad price.
Thank you for your detailed and informative discussions.
Regards Sir Broderick

Yes, Sweet PDZ is a bit spendy, but it lasts a long time!

 

[iwiw60]

PS...!?
What would happen to all the fire ants?

Haven't a clue! Where I live we don't have them.