DE Question

[TurtleFeathers]

Hi all -

I've been reading posts about DE with great interest - there seems to be one camp that uses Sevin dust and one camp that uses DE? Or are they used for totally different purposes?

I don't mean to start a big debate here, but I'm new to chickens, and I found a bunch of bugs on one of my hens yesterday evening as I was putting them up for the night. I didn't have my glasses on, but I could easily see clusters of eggs at the base of her feathers, and small dark specks that appeared to be moving, and larger whitish bugs that looked like teeny tiny grubs.

I don't know if these are mites or lice or both, but of course, I need to get rid of them - so I'm looking for an effective remedy that will not harm her, my other adult chickens, 3-4 week old baby chicks and a single mallard duckling of the same age that lives in their pen. I also have dogs and a tortoise that use the yard OUTSIDE and around the chicken pen, and my husband and I eat the eggs that these hens produce - so naturally, I don't want to use anything toxic.

My husband told me they used to use Sevin around their animals on the farm growing up, but I tend to go with all natural remedies when possible, so I looked into DE first, and I have several questions:

We have a large box of DE here right now, but its the type used for swimming pool filters - I don't know if this can be used safely with my chickens or around my other pets? (there is nothing on the box about other uses and no content listing)

Even if I CAN use this type, does DE ever expire or go bad? This stuff is several years old.

If I should NOT use this type, where does one get *food grade* DE, and will it say those words on the package? If not, can someone tell me what else to look for on the content listing?

Does DE *get rid of* mites and lice, or does it just *keep them in check*? Should I use Sevin (or something else) to get rid of these critters and then use DE as a maintenance thing?

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide!

Kathy

 

[greyhorsewoman]

No, I wouldn't use commercial DE on the birds (though it may be OK in the run). Most food grade DE is purchased online, it's just not commonly carried by local resources. There are several links on the forum under similar topics, if you do a search.)

When our chickens had mites, I did a mix of DE and poultry dust initially and now treat with DE periodically.

 

[JohnL11935]

I have used both food grade DE and Sevin. Both worked equally as well.

Do your birds have an area where they dust bathe? This will greatly help with preventing infestation in the future. My favorite spot is under the coop. I will rake it with an iron rake and add some ashes from the fireplace. They go down their and roll around every chance the get. Haven't had a problem since.

 

[TurtleFeathers]

Thanks so much for the replies so far. I'm wondering tho, what is the chemical difference between "commercial" and "food grade" DE? And what is the benefit of adding ashes from a fireplace or woodstove?

Thanks again -

Kathy

 

[Heidi]

I order my DE from my feed mill - usually takes a week to get it in. I used DE to maintain my flock. Meaning... I put it on the floor and in their nesting boxes. When they do have a break out of the "great northern red mites" I use Sevin to treat them. The Sevin works much faster then the DE. I then use the Sevin in their nesting boxes until I'm sure that the mites are gone - then back to DE.

 

[dlhunicorn]

ususally has a toxic component to it (toxic which ingested and the birds will inhale the dust) so DONT use it!

 

[Judy]

First of all, please don't use the pool type DE around you or any animals, as it is quite toxic.

DE is used by many as a preventive against mites, lice and worms (added to feed for worms.) It seems to control mites/lice on mine pretty well, though I can usually find a few. But you need more if there is an infestation, as you need a quick kill. For this, the next step up is a permethrin/pyrethrin spray or dust. Around here, I can get a poultry dust at the feed store, or Adams flea and tick spray at WalMart or the vet.

Sevin 5% is the next step up. It is definitely more toxic than permethrin/pyrethrin, and actually I understand will be taken off the market after this year.

Some on here use shampoos designed for fleas on dogs, but I have read there is one type that is quite harmful to chickens, and don't know which one, so I stay with poultry dust if needed and DE for control.

Here are some good links on DE, how to use it, where to get it, and the difference between food grade and pool type:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/web/viewblog.php?id=1560-Food_Grade_DE

http://www.shadowridgedonkeys.com/index.html

http://www.custommilling.com/

http://www.freshwaterorganics.com/what_is_de.htm

Most people find it impossible to find the food grade locally. I got mine from Custom Milling. It is not cheap but I have 2 coops and still have half the bag (40 lbs. or so) I bought last year. It should be used sparingly.

 

[DonnaBelle]

DE also works to keep down flies in additon to drying out the poop in the shavings in the coop. I use the deep litter method. I mix DE with PDZ, a horse stall/barn deodorizer. I put the mix into a big strainer I keep in the hen house, and sprinkle it all over the shavings on the coop floor.

You know, Seven dust comes in different strengths, 5% and 10%. I use the 10% outside, the 5% inside the coop, around the edges.

I get DE from my feed store, sometimes the have to order it for me but i get 50 lbs of food grade for about $15.00. The PDZ is $13.00 for 50 lbs.

Check with a locally owned feed store. I don't know if Tractor Supply and/or Orschelns or any of the chain stores have it.

I too like to keep things natural if at all possible. I use a lot of vinegar to clean with. The DE is a natural product. You can eat it yourself if you think you are wormy. HA.

DonnaBelle

 

[mamaKate]

Swimming pool DE will kill your birds. Don't use it anywhere any animal or child has access. Sevin is pretty widely used (I've used it with no apparent ill effects) but if you look into it, there are substantial risks. Try the health food or feed store for food grade DE. I love the idea of a back yard tortoise. How big is he?

 

[TurtleFeathers]

In reference to the swimming pool DE (and other chemicals without appropriate labels), my policy is "when in doubt, don't." So no, I have not, and WILL NOT, use this. Our pool is long gone, so I need to find out how to appropriately dispose of this stuff...

I called my feed store earlier, and they said they had a lice/mite powder that was safe for chickens, horses, dogs, etc... so I'll go check that out and compare to 5% Sevin so I can eliminate at least the bulk of these critters right away. Then I'll concentrate my efforts on finding a reliable/economical source for food grade DE for a maintenance regimen.

Plus, I do have access to a wood stove (and therefore, ashes), so I'll combine this in a dusting area as well - but I'd still like to know what purpose ashes serve? Is it just a way to recycle ashes and give the chickens something to dust themselves in, or does it benefit the chickens and/or actually kill off the mites/lice?

Oh, and MamaKate - I actually have several species of tortoises around here (I've been a "turtle person" since I was a kid) - there are leopards, redfoots, Greeks, and one small sulcata (or African Spurred Tortoise) all of which have their own separate enclosures, but the one I'm concerned with is my largest sulcata, who is about 35 pounds. We rescued him 3 years ago after our previous rescued sulcata passed away (he was about 50 pounds) and has doubled in size since he's been here. He roams the whole backyard (two fenced in acres), and is purely an EATING MACHINE - therefore, I'm concerned about chemicals and treating the grass AROUND the chicken enclosure as well as INSIDE the enclosure...

Kathy