De-Worming Med?

[Kiki]

If I wrote an article and submitted it to the great Wiki, stating how burning frankincense incense in my chicken coop for exactly 7 minutes a day 4 times a month eliminated all my flock's worms would you believe it?

My point is anyone can submit articles to the great Wiki.

 

[Frazzemrat1]

Frazz:
Sold as /Medicine name/ Dose per Pound
One dose then repeat One dose in 10 - 14 days
VALBAZEN Albendazole 0.08 ml
SAFEGUARD Fenbendazole 0.23 ml
PANACUR Fenbendazole 0.23 ml

Kiki, thank you. I should have asked you directly... you and My Lady below...

@Frazzemrat1

Whether or not your pull eggs depends on what you use.

Currently, there is no over the counter worm medicine for chickens. All meds are now used off label as the FDA has seen fit to remove manufacturing approval for poultry wormers. No one is making poultry de-wormer since the 2017 rulings removing a lot of drugs from the food chain.

I am in agreement that DE does nothing. The science is simply not there, and there is real risk of respiratory irritation for the birds (and yourself).

Durvet Strike iii, 2016 version, had Hygromycin B, a well established wormer, that the FDA allowed without egg pull times as Hygromycin B showed low egg residue.

Durvet Strike iii, 2017 version to current, has nothing in it to recommend it for de-worming. It is "natural" with no de-wormer meds and thus has nothing in to to require egg pull times. Its ingredients, from the Durvet website, are:
Yeast Culture (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), Pumpkin Seed (flavor), Wormwood (flavor), Clove (flavor), Oregano (flavor), Garlic (flavor), Montmorillonite Clay, Diatomaceous Earth 0.50% (anticaking agent).

Pumpkin seeds, wormwood, oregano, and garlic have shown the ability to somewhat flush the intestinal track of poultry, if in large enough doses (note Durvet can only indicate "flavor" as the content is not great enough for actual content %). Herbals must be given consistently to be effective, and more importantly, herbals do NOT kill the worms. They simply flush adult worms from the system leaving them alive and well, ready to be picked up by the next bird or hatching further in the bird. To be truly effective, per organic farm standards, you must regularly rotate your fields to keep this build up from causing bird decline from worm overload.

If you believe that you have a worm overload, as all birds have a low level of infestation kept in check by their immune systems, I can recommend @KikisGirls suggestions for med types and dosages.

Egg pull time often has nothing to do with the safety of the eggs, as many of these meds are used in humans or allowed in other countries with no pull time, plus the drug residue in the eggs is minuscule and well below the level given to a human.

The main reason for egg pull time is so that if your eggs were ever tested, no drugs that were not approved by the FDA could be found should someone outside your family consume them. If there is a problem with your eggs (someone got sick), you would be liable for whatever penalties the FDA deems fit for using non-approved drugs in food for humans. Therefore, the 10 days to sometimes 30 days pull times are so that it is highly unlikely any residue could be found in your eggs. For strict family use, it matters little other than any health concern there might be for sensitivity to a particular drug type.

Worming is sadly a surprisingly controversial topic and sometimes enthusiasm outstrips science and truth. I can only recommend that you read a lot, decide your philosophy of chicken management and food purity

As to the animal science, meds work, herbals delay the needs for meds only IF you also have strict field and litter management to slow the inevitable build up of live worms in the environment.

My thoughts and experiences,
LofMc

Thank you!!! I really appreciate the breakdown here, and it was exactly what I was looking for. I did order the herbal pellets, and a liquid to put in the water. I figured I was going to use the liquid diluted as the 2nd step. And that sounds like I am doing about the right thing. My biggest concern was with a liquid using too much.

Again, thank you guys so much. As much as I like natural methods for things, I admit that I also know that they don’t always work.

 

[Stevo77]

That is a myth.
Poop on eggs does not mean worms.
I am sorry, I know the article is about horses but it works the same for chickens.

 

[Stevo77]

All I know is I have happy healthy chickens and this is what I use. Until proven otherwise this is what I will continue to use. Different people have different opinions on things, I'm not gonna put anyone else's methods down.

 

[RodNTN]

Just use what works, everyone. I do.

 

[Kiki]

All I know is I have happy healthy chickens and this is what I use. Until proven otherwise this is what I will continue to use. Different people have different opinions on things, I'm not gonna put anyone else's methods down.

I'm not trying to put anyone down. Fecal float tests don't lie either. There is a misconception that makes a lot of people think that since they don't see worms their flock does't have them. This is simply not true. Most of the time you will never see worms, until it is too late.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Thank you to all who have shared on this thread.

I find it helpful to discuss what is effective for chickens so that those who need information can easily obtain it. It also helps me keep current with the science and real life results.

That is what this forum is about, sharing of ideas and opinions and experiences.

Never be afraid of discussion. As long as we stick to the issue and avoid any derogatory terms (and I didn't see any intended in this thread), in my mind we are discussing an important issue which has varied opinions. And that means others may disagree or have had a different outcome.

I know how very disappointing it is to find a favored method is not really effective but more a result of luck. That has alerted me that it may only be a matter of time before I will have to intervene or that I need to change my approach immediately. Thank you to those who have corrected me in the past.

As most of us are not running true scientific experiments with our flocks, anything we offer is personal experience, which can be very helpful. No matter how much science says it works, it only works if your birds do well with it. And that takes user feed back (Gotta love Amazon shoppers for that!)

I do think we should remember that environment plays a huge factor in helminths (worms).

Someone who has good, freezing, winters, and natural field rotation, will simply not have the worm load in the soil as those who live in more moderate, wet, climates on a smaller lot.

Herbals may be sufficient for the right environment while totally ineffective for another.

I LOVE the idea of herbals. I totally would prefer to treat only with ACV, pumpkin seeds, cayenne, garlic, and wormwood (only my birds won't eat wormwood).

However, I live on a small 1/3 acre lot that has had chickens for a lot of years. I cannot field rotate well (though I try to seasonally scoop out runs and add fresh which is almost like field rotation).

I also have a mild, wet climate that is ideal for worm growth. I can at best keep worms somewhat at bay, for a time, but must resort to meds or my birds' health sorely declines. My SIL, an organic farmer in the deep south, agrees. His environment, even with field rotation, tends to battle parasites because of the climate and wild life present.

It helps to consider your situation, your environment, your climate.

To help make my choices, I do rely on science as I want to see controlled evidence that something is actually effective before I put my hard earned dollars towards it. However, I also enjoy hearing the experiences of those who have closely witnessed the effects of alternatives.

So thank you all for sharing to help us all improve our knowledge base.
LofMc

 

[Kiki]

Thank you to all who have shared on this thread.

I find it helpful to discuss what is effective for chickens so that those who need information can easily obtain it. It also helps me keep current with the science and real life results.

That is what this forum is about, sharing of ideas and opinions and experiences.

Never be afraid of discussion. As long as we stick to the issue and avoid any derogatory terms (and I didn't see any intended in this thread), in my mind we are discussing an important issue which has varied opinions. And that means others may disagree or have had a different outcome.

I know how very disappointing it is to find a favored method is not really effective but more a result of luck. That has alerted me that it may only be a matter of time before I will have to intervene or that I need to change my approach immediately. Thank you to those who have corrected me in the past.

As most of us are not running true scientific experiments with our flocks, anything we offer is personal experience, which can be very helpful. No matter how much science says it works, it only works if your birds do well with it. And that takes user feed back (Gotta love Amazon shoppers for that!)

I do think we should remember that environment plays a huge factor in helminths (worms).

Someone who has good, freezing, winters, and natural field rotation, will simply not have the worm load in the soil as those who live in more moderate, wet, climates on a smaller lot.

Herbals may be sufficient for the right environment while totally ineffective for another.

I LOVE the idea of herbals. I totally would prefer to treat only with ACV, pumpkin seeds, cayenne, garlic, and wormwood (only my birds won't eat wormwood).

However, I live on a small 1/3 acre lot that has had chickens for a lot of years. I cannot field rotate well (though I try to seasonally scoop out runs and add fresh which is almost like field rotation).

I also have a mild, wet climate that is ideal for worm growth. I can at best keep worms somewhat at bay, for a time, but must resort to meds or my birds' health sorely declines. My SIL, an organic farmer in the deep south, agrees. His environment, even with field rotation, tends to battle parasites because of the climate and wild life present.

It helps to consider your situation, your environment, your climate.

To help make my choices, I do rely on science as I want to see controlled evidence that something is actually effective before I put my hard earned dollars towards it. However, I also enjoy hearing the experiences of those who have closely witnessed the effects of alternatives.

So thank you all for sharing to help us all improve our knowledge base.
LofMc

 

[casportpony]

Currently, there is no over the counter worm medicine for chickens. All meds are now used off label as the FDA has seen fit to remove manufacturing approval for poultry wormers. No one is making poultry de-wormer since the 2017 rulings removing a lot of drugs from the food chain.

Not entirely true... Wazine is FDA approved for use in broilers and turkeys, and fenbendazole at a very low dose for five days in a row is FDA approved for use in laying hens to treat large roundworms and cecal worms.

Edited to add links:
✪ FDA Approves Fenbendazole for Use in Laying Hens to Treat Large Roundworms and Cecal Worms ✪

https://www.drugs.com/vet/wazine-17.html

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Not entirely true... Wazine is FDA approved for use in broilers and turkeys, and fenbendazole at a very low dose for five days in a row is FDA approved for use in laying hens to treat large roundworms and cecal worms.

Edited to add links:
✪ FDA Approves Fenbendazole for Use in Laying Hens to Treat Large Roundworms and Cecal Worms ✪

https://www.drugs.com/vet/wazine-17.html

Thank you casportlady for the corrections.

I neglected to mention for broilers and turkeys since we were discussing layers, but that is absolutely correct about Wazine.

And YIPEE...I checked the link...yup...as of January 2018, the FDA has finally re-approved a med for layers after having nothing approved for 2017. Those rules do change regularly (I checked in January, but it hadn't been posted yet). Now to find some of it

For those curious, if you sell (or technically even share eggs with others), it can be wise to stick with FDA approved drugs for your layers. That way if anyone thinks they got sick from your eggs, you won't also get hit with FDA claims too.

LofMc