Deep litter method in Arizona (Zone 9)… not working?

[Hardennaise]

Hello! So we are in the Apache Junction area (essentially foothills of the Superstition Mountains), Zone 9. We got chickens in 2022 and it has been a learning curve. We have 14 chickens and 2 roosters. We do not free range them because it’s the desert and too many predators. Our setup is just not built for it.

At first, we were using the wood pellets we added water to so that they “fluff up” and then put into the coop/run. But we noticed that our chickens were sneezing like crazy with this method and it had to be cleaned up every few days. It smelled awful. It was so dusty and I had to wear an N95 mask when cleaning.

After doing some research, we wanted to try the deep litter method. We have been utilizing the deep litter method since Spring of this year (2024), but we have seen zero and I mean zero composting. All we have is dry poop mixed with shavings. When we turn the shavings (once every few weeks), all we see is some broken down dusty material but none of this composting goodness we are in theory supposed to see…

I guess I’m wondering a few things. 1. Is the deep litter method even a good option for a dry low desert climate like this? 2. Are we doing something wrong? Do we need to add moisture to the bedding? It is dusty but it’s Arizona. 3. Any other methods recommended aside from deep litter?

Our girls get scratch and scraps, so they scratch around quite a bit. We are using pine shavings as the material medium and are trying to maintain the 1:4 ratio. The floor is made of cinder blocks. Plenty of ventilation.

To add to our frustration with the deep litter method not working, we have had chickens dying randomly every few months! It’s very disheartening to be honest. We feel that we are following everything we can with the DL method to a T, but I feel like we are committing an error on our end that’s causing it not to work.. and maybe causing issues in our flock…

Any help or insight would be so appreciated. Thank you in advance!

 

[rosemarythyme]

Deep litter requires moisture to compost, which is why you're not really seeing composting action.

In an arid climate sand is probably a better option, but it does require regular sifting. If you want to get compost out of it you can sift the poop out of the sand and compost it in bins with dry organic matter so you can control the moisture level.

 

[Ted Brown]

DLM does not work in a coop, lack of moisture & soil contact inhibits composting. Deep bedding coupled with drop boards & daily pickup of waste works, I clean once a year and yes it is a dusty job. N95 masks are a great practice regardless of what bedding material is used, chickens are dusty!

I use DLM in the run and it seems not to compost either. My run is covered but I do get moisture via rain/snow entering "around the edges". However, six years later I have never needed to clean it out. The waste drys quickly and disappears.

@rosemarythyme suggestion of sand may be the best in your climate.

 

[perkolator]

How deep is your deep litter? It needs to be kept moist and has to be fairly deep in order to actually compost; I'd guess well over 12" deep and moist like a compost pile or wrung out sponge.

Alternatively, deep DRY bedding system has worked for me in zone9 CA where we hardly get rain, my bedding is all organic materials (chunky arborist wood chips, pine shavings, hardwood pellets, straw, leaves, grass clippings, etc) and generally ranges in depth from 4"-16" deep above ground level due to sloped terrain and chicken activity.

 

[Ted Brown]

To add to my post above.

I move the waste from drop boards to a compost box pretty much every day. I also add the bedding materials from both the coop and separate bachelor/breeding/brooding/isolation cages to the same compost box. I empty the boxes at least annually and get the black "earth" that is so beneficial to gardens; my sister visits once per year and digs it into the gardens. Works a charm!

That my run is not producing compost is not an issue. The run is to give my hens outdoor space that benefits their health & mental well being; it does that in spades. Besides, cleaning out the run would be a major undertaking that would only cause me to restart what has taken 5 years to achieve. For those 5 years each fall I gather masses of leaves/needles and top the run off, now have ~15" and thinking I will not add more organic materials until what is there starts to disappear. Note that I started the run base with coarse mulch and some pine shavings. These days used shavings go directly to the compost box.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

i'm just reading to learn, so I know where to direct people next time the question comes up. I get 54-57" of rain a year. Even when I lived in TX, we got regular reain for most of the year.

Thank you @rosemarythyme @Ted Brown @perkolator - Very informative.

and commenting, so I remember. Makes finding the post easier in the future.

 

[rosemarythyme]

i'm just reading to learn, so I know where to direct people next time the question comes up. I get 54-57" of rain a year. Even when I lived in TX, we got regular reain for most of the year.

Thank you @rosemarythyme @Ted Brown @perkolator - Very informative.

and commenting, so I remember. Makes finding the post easier in the future.

In the whole deep litter vein, I documented my run clean out last year which yielded 1 cu yard of sifted run compost: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/prepping-deep-litter-for-fall.1599199/

Did my final leaf clean up for 2024 today, so the run now looks like a collection bin of mist dampened dried leaves. By spring nearly all of that will be broken down and ready to take additional dried leaves (which I store for year round use).

Composting slows slightly in summer as we get next to no rain, however since the run is only 20' from a creek the ground retains enough moisture year round that the yard stays green without watering.

Long story short, I live in a very different climate than the OP!

 

[BlueBaby]

I'm here in Arizona where there's seldom any rain, and I only use the dirt that is on the ground. I have a coop with an attached run so no, I don't free range because of coyotes and occasional loose dog's. You can do cleanup using a kitty litter scoop, and put the poop and any feathers in a bucket, then just empty the bucket where you want it to be at.

 

[RennaeHanson]

I'm curious why you are losing chickens. I am also in Arizona although I'm at 4,500 elevation. I keep my coop bedding fairly deep and turn it every few days, I also try to keep the nesting boxes cleaned out at the same time but I don't lose any chickens. I would analyze what you are feeding, make sure they are getting plenty of water and look for other things that may be causing you to lose chickens.

 

[BlueBaby]

@RennaeHanson i agree with you. I don't have chicken's dieing over here neither.