Deep litter method or Deep compost system, what's the difference?

[gtaus]

Is there any agreed upon distinction between the deep litter method and the deep compost system for bedding in the chicken coop?

When I think of Deep litter method, I'm thinking deep, dry, bedding used in elevated coops. The chicken droppings get stirred up in the bedding but the bedding itself is thick enough that it stays dry. There is little to no active composting going on because the bedding goal is to remain dry. I use wood chips, but other bedding material could be pine shavings, paper shreds, straw or hay, or hemp. All materials that are absorbent but basically will stay dry on their own.

The Deep compost system, as I understand it, is active layers of compostable material inside the coop. The top layer remains dry, but the lower layers are wet and actively composting. Some people add kitchen scraps and other green material to the bedding, water down the bedding to activate the composting, and the bedding itself produces heat that helps warm the chickens in cooler weather. Most of these systems are used on dirt floors as the composting activity is assisted by micro organisms in the soil.

So that is my understanding of the difference. However, I keep reading articles where these terms are used interchangeably, and you can't really tell which system is what. Today I read an article on the deep litter system and it described what I would call a deep compost system. The reason I am asking if there are agreed upon terms about this subject is because I tell people I am using a deep litter method in my coop and people tell me I can't compost in an elevated coop because it does not have contact with a dirt ground. Well, no, I am not trying to compost in the coop.

So, do I have the terminology correct, or not? Is there somewhere that clearly defines the difference? Thanks in advance.

 

[Folly's place]

I agree to the confusion here. My coop has a concrete floor, mostly covered in rubber stall mats. I use shavings to bed it deeply, and the bedding doesn't compost, as it would if on a dirt floor. The concrete helps keep rodents out, but I'd really rather have a dirt floor, so stuff would break down better over time, into compost.
Mary

 

[gtaus]

I agree to the confusion here. My coop has a concrete floor, mostly covered in rubber stall mats. I use shavings to bed it deeply, and the bedding doesn't compost, as it would if on a dirt floor. The concrete helps keep rodents out, but I'd really rather have a dirt floor, so stuff would break down better over time, into compost.

My coop is built on the frame of an old boat trailer so I can move it closer to the house for the winter months. Originally I wanted to compost the bedding, but was basically told that is almost impossible in an elevated coop because there is no contact with the soil. So I gave up on the idea of a deep composting system and am trying what I call a deep litter method. I will still use the deep litter as top mulch for the garden when I clean the coop, but it won't be broken down like compost. Some of the bedding will go into compost piles out by the garden. So it all can be used, but not broken down as fast a deep composting system.

I talked to a number of people when I was considering a coop with a dirt floor, and was advised against it for a number of reasons, but primarily because predators can dig into the coop and get the chickens. Especially vulnerable in the winter as the predators seek both food and warmth.

We have so many ways of talking about chickens that precisely communicate what we are talking about. We know the difference between a pullet and a hen, yet both are girl birds, for example. But it is confusing when we talk about a deep litter method or a deep composting system because I don't know where anybody has really defined the difference in concept and design of these types of bedding.

 

[Chef JimmyJ]

Ive heard about Deep Litter but can't say I have heard the term Deep Compost used.
A Dirt Floor has nothing to do with whether or not composting takes place. Combine Brown, Carbon, Green, Nitrogen, the Moisture bacteria need to survive and Oxygen, Aerobic Bacteria make less Stink and work faster, and you will get Composting.
If Dirt contact is needed...How come Plastic Barrel Composters work???
The Bacteria for composting is everywhere and on everything. Bacteria is in the Chicken Poop, in the Air, and on any Plant Material you put in the coop. Seems the one thing missing in a raised coop is Moisture. The biggest problem, I see, with adding moisture and either you turning the bedding or scattering Scratch in the Coop so the birds aerate the bedding is, In cold weather high humidity can cause Frostbite. You would need great Ventilation to keep the air dry even though the deepest portion of the Bedding is moist...JJ

 

[gtaus]

...If Dirt contact is needed...How come Plastic Barrel Composters work???

Plastic barrel composting works better when active compost or soil is added to the mix. I'm building a plastic barrel composter out of a 55 gallon drum and that is what I read to do. But as you say, the bacteria for composting is everywhere and on everything. Using active compost or soil just super charges the process.

So you are correct in stating that it is possible to compost in an elevated coop that does not have contact with a dirt floor. You would probably have to add some active compost or soil, water it down, and turn it over from time to time to ensure it continues to heat up and compost. The guys I talked to around here really steered me away from the deep compost system. But as you go on to say about moisture...

...Seems the one thing missing in a raised coop is Moisture. The biggest problem, I see, with adding moisture and either you turning the bedding or scattering Scratch in the Coop so the birds aerate the bedding is, In cold weather high humidity can cause Frostbite. You would need great Ventilation to keep the air dry even though the deepest portion of the Bedding is moist...JJ

Great point, which is why I eventually abandoned the idea of a composting system for bedding and opted for the dry deep litter method. I live in northern Minnesota and was told to keep the coop as dry as possible in the winter because of the real concern of frostbite from humidity in the coop.

 

[gtaus]

Ive heard about Deep Litter but can't say I have heard the term Deep Compost used.

You know, you might be right on this point, too. I googled the term "deep compost" and got a number of hits. But also Deep Litter and Deep Litter Composting shows up. To me, one method is dry and another is wet, hot, active composting. So I think there should be at least two different terms as the goals and the methods are different. As you mentioned, one method is moisture rich, and the other method tries to keep everything as dry as possible. I could certainly live with Deep Litter method as being the dry method and Deep Litter Composting as the wet method. That would make sense to me. However, you can read any number of articles on the Deep Litter method and they clearly mean the wet composting method. So I get confused.

 

[Chef JimmyJ]

I agree a consensus on terms would be helpful. One exampleof Companies adding to the confusion...Carolina Coops advertises their Signiture Deep Litter Bed Design. DOES MAKE COMPOST. In a raised coop. From their site...JJ

Deep Litter Beds
All our chicken coops come equipped with a deep litter bed. The entire deep litter system is made with food safe USDA, FDA, and NFS-approved high density polyethylene. (HDPE) The deep litter system allows you to only have to clean out your henhouse just once a year!

The “Old Timers” will swear by this method and it was proven to work back in war days when the men went off to fight and the women were left to tend everything. The chicken coop was not a high priority to clean out, but the goal was to simply keep it habitable. Instead of cleaning out the henhouses, they would cover the floors with fresh substrate (organic matter) to get by until they could do a thorough clean out. Over time, they realized that there was no pungent smell, the hens were healthy, it was a natural heat source in the winter, and the heap on the floor had composted into a nutrient-rich fertilizer ready for the garden. That’s how the deep litter method was born and it’s still widely used today.

While dirt floors are great for the deep litter method (DL), it can be done on almost any solid surface at all. Wood will naturally absorb and wick away any moisture from the DL, which is what you don’t want. Composting needs some moisture to process as it does. The wood will also deteriorate slowly from this moisture. This is why we use HDPE, it keeps moisture in the DL, it will not rot from moisture, it is extremely easy to clean, and it is food safe!

The Deep Litter Method starts with a good layer of pine shavings or we LOVE industrial hemp fibers. Instead of cleaning it all out every week or so and replacing it when the poop accumulates, one simply stirs up the bedding a bit with a light rake and tosses another layer of bedding on top once a week or so.

“Ewwww! Doesn’t that stink?”
Nope – not if it’s done properly (and not if your chickens are healthy).

By not removing the waste, good microbes come and make their homes in the litter. These microbes actually eat and break down the feces and consume unhealthy bacteria, leaving good bacteria behind. The microbes also help prevent infestations of lice and mites in your flock. (They won’t clean off a bird already infested — use wood ash on infested birds — but can help prevent new infestations from occurring.)

Most poeple will clean out their deep litter coops once a year… being careful to leave a 1 – 2 inch layer of the old stuff behind. This helps the new stuff begin to break down and compost too – and that’s what you want.

And what do you get when you clean that year’s worth of chicken stuff and bedding out in the early spring? You get the perfect compost and mulch for your garden.

Surprisingly your coop will smell more earthy and natural. If done properly in a well-ventilated coop, there should be no ammonia or “fowl” smell.

Important points:

• Stir up the bedding to break up any clumps every so often.
• Don’t ever use diatomaceous earth (DE) or any other chemical insecticide in the coop bedding! This will kill off the beneficial microbes and nematodes.
• Remember: the beneficial microbes can help prevent infestations of mites and lice in your flock.
• Keep layering clean bedding on top of the old bedding.
• Clean out most (but not all) of the bedding once a year or every other year, depending on your flock – most do this in early spring and use the compost in their gardens.

 

[aart]

DOES MAKE COMPOST

Ehhh, nah, that's Deep Bedding.

The term 'deep litter' is often misunderstood and misapplied.
I've always liked this explanation:
TalkALittle's post on DB vs DL:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-method-with-this-coop.1075545/#post-16440037

 

[Chef JimmyJ]

I agree with you Aart. It seems the Marketing Team at Carolina Coops is stretching the facts about what's happening in the bedding.
Like the Link you provided, Thank You, my new Coop will have the roost over Poop Trays and the goal is to keep the bedding as dry as possible, turning and adding more between 6 month clean outs, or as needed. In the Run, on the other hand we are looking forward to using the Deep Litter to provide Compost for our Garden...JJ

 

[aart]

I agree with you Aart. It seems the Marketing Team at Carolina Coops is stretching the facts about what's happening in the bedding.

...then why are you spreading it?