Delaware genetics for dummies?

[Germaine_11.20]

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So, I come over here to learn and find out I am leading the discussion? That would be sooo funny. We would end up having chickens with plaids and stripes.

What about polka dots?

even though you came here to learn, we all can share what we all ready know and teach each other

Of Couse, but I would call them Mottled Javas... I still haven't gotten a chance to read yet. Trying to catch up on back work due to playing on BYC.

 

[Cindiloohoo]

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Yeah, not supposed to look Columbian is the thing I think is getting mixed up here as a lot of so called Delawares show this especially in the neck feathers which is like was mentioned before from people like (hatcheries especially) will cross a Delaware patterned bird with Columbian breeds(white and red) which will produce pseudo(false type) Delaware offspring in which the columbian pattern crops out every so often. What I'm getting at is don't think that it is too far for some people to go(hatchery/and not all of them do but some would, have and do) to cross Delawares with Columbian rocks, Lt, Sussex,ect...) and RIR, NH, Pro. red,( which produce Delaware looking birds with red leakage which give them a brassy-yellow or rusty-orange sheen in the neck and back area) as to produce enough chicks to fill demands for orders.
This is where the problem with these flaws to crop out in so called Delawares. Anyway let me stop before someone might get upset at my suggestions.

catdaddy

So I should not use this roo. Oh and not offensive at all to me

I just want to better the breed, not muddy it up. I just did not understand all the ins and outs of how the breed came to be...still don't completely, but I want some good Delaware's and I do have some, but obviously because of this roo not all of them are what they were advertised to be. NOW I know what I need to cull, and greatly appreciate the information. I have been so confused about the coloring and how to get what I need and who to use to get there. WHEW...it's going to require a lot more studying, but I know about 3 times as much now as I knew yesterday prior to this thread!!! I actually get it now somewhat...LOL! Thanks catdaddyfro and kathyinmo for the right questions and great answers!!

 

[countrychickengirl]

Ok, I was doing some research on Delawares and ran across this small article by Ed Hoffmann who actually worked with George Ellis for a short time - it might clear up some issues about how the Del came about - I have been reading it over and over trying to get it clear in my head, but it might be helpful to someone

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Dels/Hoffmann.html

 

[popcornpuppy]

I have read that article before. It does have great info regarding the origin of the breed.

 

[speckledhen]

And that article again states what I always tell folks, that it's not an easy thing to breed proper Delawares. They are so worth it, though.

 

[catdaddyfro]

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I just read this and thanks for posting that. As many times as I've been over at the feathersite I've never read that on there. Anyway here's my rendetion of what I gather rorm the devolopement of the Delaware and I wrote all this down earlier today before I even read the before posted site so here goes.

Okay the original cross was a Barred Rock male over a New Hampshire female and what the breeders were trying for was a meaty type broiler (remember this was before the Cornish X crosses tha we have today) that was an early maturer, fast growing, yellow skinned and just so happened to come up with white plumage which made for easier processing as the white pin feathers are easier to clean and make a more desirable carcass.

The New Hampshire had most of the traits they were seeking, such as the early maturity and fast growing. the Barred Rock like most of the Plymouth Rock types have the more muscular, robust, body than the New hampshire and RIR breeds. Why the Wt. Rock was not used IDK never seen any info. on that. Anyway after extensive breedings and many trials and errors they eventually came up with what we know as the Delaware which were originally called Indian Rivers and the name was later changed to Delaware for the name of the state they were developed in.

When you breed a Barred Rock over a Red Columbian/black-tail; a New Hampshire in this case the F1 will come out a barred/cuckoo pattern like these:

These are just some examples I've found here on the BYC browsing around. Now as you can see how the barring is changed to a more cuckoo pattern and how the white is coming in around the neck and chest areas. This will sorta give you the idea of where they would have come up with the white "sports" (see deffinitions at the bottom of the page) to use in the developement of the color pattern you see on Delawares.

This is where it starts getting tricky or somewhat confusing as to the genes that are in this color pattern. (I'm by far no gentist nor even lay claim to be, just interpreting in my mind what I see and figure, so don't hold me to this, as the GOSPEL,Ok). I'm just gonna focus on two genes: (barred and columbian) as this is way too deep for me to explain much less understand completely. I'm not getting on to the genetic gurus on here and I love it when they get on here and talk about this stuff, but some of their explanations are a litle far out there for this 'ol country boy to soak in or even understand sometimes.

but don't ya'll dare stop it gets the 'ol noodle afloppin' around up there and exercise a little. Now back on track again.

Barred Rock roo= BB- which means double barred allels and that means everything they father F1 will at least be half-barred or Bb. Barring is sex-linkable and also a dilution gene. A Barred Rock is a black bird with white (diluted) barring which gives them the black and white barred pattern. A White Rock is a Barred Rock where all the black is diluted by the white barring and WR's were developed by using the white "sports" of Barred Rocks. The sex-linkable trait is way deep so I won't go into much of it at all here except that this is where you'll get the barring in the tail on the Delaware male, and not on the female. This goes back to only the males receiving the double barred allel.

Now when you cross the Barred Rock male over the New Hampshire hen(Red-Columbian) this is where the CoCo gene is introduced in the mix. The dilution gene in the barring dilutes the red and eventually is where the white comes in also known as "ghost barring" then what you have left is white Columbian (part of these test is where Lt. Sussex traits were derived from) then this is where the barring breaks up the solid black in the neck feathers(both sexes), the solid black-tail in the males (sex-linkable) and leaves solid black tail feathers on the female. There's really alot more to this, I'm just trying to show an example as to why the Delaware color pattern should not look like a Columbian patterned bird as some have questioned and seem to be confused about. WTH I've been confused most of my life

I just have to take a little time sometimes to sort things out a little. I sure hope I helped more than I harmed and if so please don't hold me to it, just thought I'd try to clear the air a little on this subject.

By the way I'm just loving my new Dellies, they're as bad as my dogs about luring me into being their servant.

Sport: Variant, Deviate, Mutant; vary abuptly from type; change or a signifigant and basic alteration; one that exhibits variation from type or norm; a hypothetical sudden fudemental change in heredity producing new individuals unlike their parents; a relatively permenant change in hereiditary material involving either a physical change in chromosome relations or a fudemental change in genes and occurring either in germ cells or somatic cells but with only those in germ cells being capable of perpetuation by sexual reproduction; an individual or strain resulting from mutation; an animal of a domesticated strain that differs esp. in coat (plumage) color from the wild type.

Thanks and I hope this helps some, psheww didn't think I'd make from here

catdaddy

 

[joletabey]

Wow. I admit to being way too tired to grasp most of this, but it sure is interesting, and THANK YOU!

 

[math ace]

I just found this thread - -- Hope there is room for one more delaware fan!
I did a search for chicken genetics and found this thread . ..


What happened to all those who wanted to know ? ? ? The last post was a YEAR ago

 

[math ace]

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If you conducted this little experiment - - - I would love to see some pics of the result. I have delawares and speckled sussex in my yard and would love to see the result.

Also, WHAT SIZE egg did the offspring lay - - Large like a delaware or medium like a SS?

 

[Henk69]

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Topics with 6 pages are not taken serious on this board. Topics with 1024 pages are the winners.
So it is like young trees in a rainforest. Most don't make it.