Delawares from kathyinmo

[Beekissed]

Anyone have eggs yet?

Not a one...not from the WRs or from the Dels, which is kind of odd when you think of two separate breeds having the same slow development.

 

[Zanna]

I like that the lower breasts look like they are filling in. I wonder about those tails, though. Walt commented on one of mine, said to watch the ones that don't get the correct tail development. You might ask him about it or maybe NYReds will give an opinion.

Are you referring to the low look to them?

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Not a one...not from the WRs or from the Dels, which is kind of odd when you think of two separate breeds having the same slow development.

I'm not exactly complaining, it's just that I'm not used to it. I was hoping to start to transition the laying flock I have (all hatchery birds contributing to a little egg business) over to to the Delawares I hope to hatch from the trio ... thinking it would be a good companion goal to the breeding of the Dels ... the breeding in one coop system, the laying in another, then the cockerel colony for the males I don't need to keep ... getting the maximum out of the Dual Purposness of the breed ...

But. Not. If. They. Refuse. To. Lay.

 

[Beekissed]

Same here...just not used to heritage stock development compared to the hatchery stock, so I'm sure it's a learning curve...though someone on the heritage thread pointed out that normal development instead of slow development is rather desired and that they cull for slow development in their heritage stock, so now I'm not sure what to expect here.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Are you referring to the low look to them?

Yes. I might have misunderstood what he was trying to point out, but I think that's it.

 

[Zanna]

Same here...just not used to heritage stock development compared to the hatchery stock, so I'm sure it's a learning curve...though someone on the heritage thread pointed out that normal development instead of slow development is rather desired and that they cull for slow development in their heritage stock, so now I'm not sure what to expect here.

Delawares were developed to be a meat bird. I can not think that this slow development is desireable for this breed............ Walt has mentioned that the New Hampshires he got from Kathy developed slowly but since he has been breeding them, the offspring develop much more quickly so this may happen with these Dels as well. We are dealing with a cross of a very slow maturing Barred Rock and a fairly quickly maturing New Hamshire. Time will tell........... Maybe Kathy will chime in some time on how she got to F'4's so quickly.

 

[Beekissed]

Walt was also discussing that the birds will develop differently according to what areas of the country they traveled to..even adult birds sold at a show could change in feathering and conditioning when being raised in another climate/environment, so maybe this is also the case with these birds from Kathy. All the long time breeders agreed that one could get vastly different results from the same lines depending upon your point on the compass.

 

[Zanna]

Yes. I might have misunderstood what he was trying to point out, but I think that's it.

I just posted some pics on the Heritage Large Fowl thread with some questions, maybe someone there will have some good thoughts.

 

[Zanna]

Walt was also discussing that the birds will develop differently according to what areas of the country they traveled to..even adult birds sold at a show could change in feathering and conditioning when being raised in another climate/environment, so maybe this is also the case with these birds from Kathy. All the long time breeders agreed that one could get vastly different results from the same lines depending upon your point on the compass.

Yes and Yes

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I'm totally new to all of it. These are my first ever "real" birds. I do think they show more "quality" than the hatchery birds, in terms of appearance. I can see that they were raised very well.

I was reading the breeding section of the Storey's Guide ... and how there are functional limitations in various breeding programs. It actually says this: "Keepers of exhibition and industrial strains have done irreparable damage to the sustainability of the genetic stocks in their care -- the former by breeding for extremes in appearance (form), the latter by breeding for extremes in production (function)." Ouch. I have zero way to evaluate that statement, but it sure did catch my eye. Especially since "sustainability" is one of my major concerns.

Then it goes on to explore the limitations of/impact on basic functionalities under different breeding programs ... Broodiness; Fecundity; Fertility; Foraging ability; Plumage color; Size; Temperament; Conformation; and Vigor. I'd maybe add "Precociousness" to the list of functions, because it doesn't seem to be covered by any of them and certainly the investment of raising a bird to the desired performance category (meat, eggs, breeding) is the major investment in keeping poultry. In a Dual Purpose flock that investment can be mitigated somewhat because the flock is (theoretically) self-sustainable and there is little to no waste in the raising process (early culls can go into the grow out pens and can eventually end up on the table ... ditto later culls and retired birds). But if the birds take 8 or more months to mature (compared to 8 or 20 weeks for specialty breeds), then you need to start parsing the "ethics" of the operation in some uncomfortable ways.

Obviously at this point in the Delaware project we're still trying to get Color & Conformation right, then I suppose there will be some tweaking on size ... then I suppose individual flocks can begin to select for other aspects they consider desirable. For me that would be things like getting great fertile eggs in a reasonable amount of time, decent winter laying rates (it is, after all, a promise of this particular breed), getting the culls up to a decent size in a moderate amount of time, and a reasonable amount of broodiness.

I think the challenge of getting there is interesting and exciting. I don't intend to show myself, but I understand a breed of chicken is *entirely* determined by how the bird looks, so I do understand looks are all important, so for now: Color & Conformation.

Here is a little slice of positivity about Delawares ... http://www.sustainablepoultrynetwork.com/a-great-story-of-a-delaware-flock/