Delawares from kathyinmo

[LeslieDJoyce]

Completely agree Leslie! I love Joel, have met him a few times and in general love his methods although not all of them fit exactly into our farm plan. We raise our CornishX in the chicken tractors and hoop houses but you're right, they were bred to sit at the feeder. And there's absolutely no way you can raise these for less than the grocery store and you shouldn't... and far as eggs... if you're raising them on pasture with access to plenty of grass your eggs should be 2 to 10 times higher in all the good stuff and 1/2 to 1/3 less in all the bad stuff, it's a premium product and should be paid for as such! We are lucky in our area to have a great farmer's market and we are able to get a good price for our eggs/meat.

I think our culture values "cheap" food and bargain hunting above all other competing ethics. I have the same kind of "sticker shock" when I'm looking to buy pastured beef, etc., so I get it. It used to be that buying stuff directly from the farm meant buying it for less than at the grocery store. Some people don't want to admit that has changed or care to understand the reasons why. Some people already get it. Probably if I wanted to do the farmer's market thing I could sell the eggs for more. Our local market is expensive, and I have ZERO desire to sit there and answer people's weird questions about "Were these eggs gathered TODAY?" I'd be the famous "Egg Nazi" before noon. "No eggs for you!"

I honestly had not intended to be in the egg selling business. But that's a long story.

 

[newmanmichael]

I think our culture values "cheap" food and bargain hunting above all other competing ethics. I have the same kind of "sticker shock" when I'm looking to buy pastured beef, etc., so I get it. It used to be that buying stuff directly from the farm meant buying it for less than at the grocery store. Some people don't want to admit that has changed or care to understand the reasons why. Some people already get it. Probably if I wanted to do the farmer's market thing I could sell the eggs for more. Our local market is expensive, and I have ZERO desire to sit there and answer people's weird questions about "Were these eggs gathered TODAY?" I'd be the famous "Egg Nazi" before noon. "No eggs for you!"

I honestly had not intended to be in the egg selling business. But that's a long story.

Yep, I agree. I heard a statistic once that our society used to spend 18% on food and 9% on healthcare... now it's reversed (and probably going up!)!! There are certain things I value and other things I don't... food is one that I value But I do understand people's hesitations about spending a premium on food.

haha... love your Egg Nazi reference, I'm a huge Seinfeld fan We do get some weird questions from time to time but it's just part of the game. My father-in-law is the one who goes there and he's really good with people. He was an extension agent for our county for a number of years and then retired to be a farmer. He's seen and heard just about everything I think!

If you're just trying to supplement your feed bill then I completely understand, those girls can eat you out of house and home!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

If you're just trying to supplement your feed bill then I completely understand, those girls can eat you out of house and home!

Originally I told customers I was pretty sure I was selling the eggs at a loss and would run the numbers after the first year. I recently ran the numbers and raised the prices to cover the cost of the feed (we also deliver, but I left that out of the equation) and lost most of my customers, some with a note roughly stating "I think OTHER people should pay enough to cover the feed costs, but will you make an exception for ME?" One customer even asked me to overcharge other people so I could give her eggs for free. I couldn't manage to understand that request. We dropped the prices slightly, and got enough customers back that we are selling out off eggs each week, which is nice.

I now understand the marketing power of the false mark-up and subsequent sale price to create the false sense of "savings." Such a strange culture we live in.

I do donate a fair number of eggs to people I know need a break. I know how it feels to struggle.

 

[Beekissed]

Completely agree Leslie! I love Joel, have met him a few times and in general love his methods although not all of them fit exactly into our farm plan. We raise our CornishX in the chicken tractors and hoop houses but you're right, they were bred to sit at the feeder. And there's absolutely no way you can raise these for less than the grocery store and you shouldn't... and far as eggs... if you're raising them on pasture with access to plenty of grass your eggs should be 2 to 10 times higher in all the good stuff and 1/2 to 1/3 less in all the bad stuff, it's a premium product and should be paid for as such! We are lucky in our area to have a great farmer's market and we are able to get a good price for our eggs/meat.

I beg to differ on that. To buy free ranged CX in the store, you are paying a premium, so one cannot compare what I raise at home(fully free ranged) to regular broiler house raised birds in the store~that isn't the same product. You CAN raise them cheaper and they will free range and better than any DP bird I've ever seen if a person is giving them the proper incentive.

I've done two batches of CX for much cheaper than one can buy them in the store and definitely cheaper than Salatin charges for his "pasture" raised...meaning they are pooping on a 10x10 piece of pasture while they are growing up on continuous grain based feeds.

Fermenting the feeds and restricting the feeds is a game changer, as is allowing and encouraging actual free ranging on good forage.

 

[newmanmichael]

I beg to differ on that. To buy free ranged CX in the store, you are paying a premium, so one cannot compare what I raise at home(fully free ranged) to regular broiler house raised birds in the store~that isn't the same product. You CAN raise them cheaper and they will free range and better than any DP bird I've ever seen if a person is giving them the proper incentive.

I've done two batches of CX for much cheaper than one can buy them in the store and definitely cheaper than Salatin charges for his "pasture" raised...meaning they are pooping on a 10x10 piece of pasture while they are growing up on continuous grain based feeds.

Fermenting the feeds and restricting the feeds is a game changer, as is allowing and encouraging actual free ranging on good forage.

Oh, I completely agree, what you can raise at the farm is completely different than what one can get at the grocery store, it is a completely different product. Ah, good to know about the feed. I'd love to hear more on how you raise your birds? How do you house them? With restricting the feed do you still find they grow out nice? What kind of feeds are you fermenting, I'm not familiar with doing that. For our sheep we supplement their grass with oats which we sprout and that turns it more into a grass based feed instead of a grain, and I know we have some of our layer chickens who love that!

 

[Beekissed]

Oh, I completely agree, what you can raise at the farm is completely different than what one can get at the grocery store, it is a completely different product. Ah, good to know about the feed. I'd love to hear more on how you raise your birds? How do you house them? With restricting the feed do you still find they grow out nice? What kind of feeds are you fermenting, I'm not familiar with doing that. For our sheep we supplement their grass with oats which we sprout and that turns it more into a grass based feed instead of a grain, and I know we have some of our layer chickens who love that!

There are some pretty big threads on the meat bird forum on using the fermented feed(FF) on meat birds and also on layers. It can cut the feed bill almost in half for both groups, while feeding probiotics and prebiotics derived naturally...meaning one doesn't have to buy expensive feeds with probios added. It keeps them better hydrated and prevents coccidia(among other diseases) in the younger birds, while also rendering some awesome flavor to the meat of the CX and older DPs.

The first batch was smaller(20) and raised in the same coop and pasture as my layer flock...they did not get fermented feed but were still cheap to raise as they ate the same rations as my layer flock, once a day. The second batch larger(54) were raised in a hoop coop and on pasture and woodland. They take longer to grow out, but it's a slower growth that allows their bones and organs to keep pace with their meat. They also get exercise which helps insure stronger bones and cardiovascular health as well. That translates into a healthier end product, no money lost on dead birds, and you can keep them longer...the longer you let them grow out, the more flavor and texture to the meat.

You can ferment any feed...but the whole purpose of fermenting feed is to amp up regular proteins found in grains to the max by converting them to perfect proteins~amino acids~which are better utilized by a monogastric animal like a chicken. That way, you can take a feed grain that is relatively low in protein percentages~cheaper than high pro feeds~ and increase it up to 12% by the simple method of fermentation. You ought to read up on that...could save you a lot of money for all your chickens and also improve the health of your flocks, improve the taste of your eggs and meats, and makes the feces less aromatic and easier to compost...particularly for meaties. No flies in the coop, no smells in the coop...just nothing.

Here's a vid of the last batch when they were 5 wks old.....

 

[newmanmichael]

There are some pretty big threads on the meat bird forum on using the fermented feed(FF) on meat birds and also on layers. It can cut the feed bill almost in half for both groups, while feeding probiotics and prebiotics derived naturally...meaning one doesn't have to buy expensive feeds with probios added. It keeps them better hydrated and prevents coccidia(among other diseases) in the younger birds, while also rendering some awesome flavor to the meat of the CX and older DPs.

The first batch was smaller(20) and raised in the same coop and pasture as my layer flock...they did not get fermented feed but were still cheap to raise as they ate the same rations as my layer flock, once a day. The second batch larger(54) were raised in a hoop coop and on pasture and woodland. They take longer to grow out, but it's a slower growth that allows their bones and organs to keep pace with their meat. They also get exercise which helps insure stronger bones and cardiovascular health as well. That translates into a healthier end product, no money lost on dead birds, and you can keep them longer...the longer you let them grow out, the more flavor and texture to the meat.

You can ferment any feed...but the whole purpose of fermenting feed is to amp up regular proteins found in grains to the max by converting them to perfect proteins~amino acids~which are better utilized by a monogastric animal like a chicken. That way, you can take a feed grain that is relatively low in protein percentages~cheaper than high pro feeds~ and increase it up to 12% by the simple method of fermentation. You ought to read up on that...could save you a lot of money for all your chickens and also improve the health of your flocks, improve the taste of your eggs and meats, and makes the feces less aromatic and easier to compost...particularly for meaties. No flies in the coop, no smells in the coop...just nothing.

Here's a vid of the last batch when they were 5 wks old.....

Love it! Thanks for posting!! I love how active your birds are and this seems like a great way to feed them. I'll do some searching but if you have any links to particular threads I'd love to have them. Thanks!

 

[Beekissed]

Sure can.... https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/644300/fermenting-feed-for-meat-birds

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/645057/fermented-feeds-anyone-using-them

And here's one you might find interesting as well.... https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...-your-cornish-x-meaties-tractors-do-not-count

I was a Salatin fan for many a long year and had read all his books. Tried out some of his methods on cows, sheep and even on chickens and found them sound. Then I went on a tour of his place and saw some things that didn't jive with what he teaches about in his books, particularly in how he raised his poultry~both broilers and layers~and it was a real eye opener. I'm not too big a fan of his now, as I see that a lot that he does is merely as a marketing ploy.... but that doesn't negate the quality of some of his methods about pasture and the natural approach to animal health. Too bad he doesn't follow his own teachings in those areas as fully as the books describe.

 

[finnfur]

The thread Bee started - fermenting
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/645057/fermented-feeds-anyone-using-them

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I beg to differ on that. To buy free ranged CX in the store, you are paying a premium, so one cannot compare what I raise at home(fully free ranged) to regular broiler house raised birds in the store~that isn't the same product. You CAN raise them cheaper and they will free range and better than any DP bird I've ever seen if a person is giving them the proper incentive.

I've done two batches of CX for much cheaper than one can buy them in the store and definitely cheaper than Salatin charges for his "pasture" raised...meaning they are pooping on a 10x10 piece of pasture while they are growing up on continuous grain based feeds.

Fermenting the feeds and restricting the feeds is a game changer, as is allowing and encouraging actual free ranging on good forage.

Pardon the continued digression in this thread, but ...

I did NOT ferment their feed ... which I'm now convinced was the big mistake/game changer. If I do it again, I'll do that for sure. But after about a week of "normal-ish" peeping, the birds turned into trough potatoes. They had access to a pasture a few feet away, but they were *terrified* of it. I was thinking maybe a broody-momma would help with that, so that's maybe something I'd try.

I was very disappointed. I saw the beautiful videos of the foraging meaties, and thought "That's What I'll Do." Ha!

In theory, I still object to the notion of buying "patented" livestock, which is what the Cornish Cross are. Because in the end you're still getting your bird from Tyson, right?

Looking at the math (which I did with the customer who is pressing me the hardest to provide meat birds), the chicks cost $2.50 from the feed store ... the price drops to about $2.00 per bird (not including shipping) if you order 100 or more through the mail ... all my potential customers know they can pay $5.00 for a delicious and huge *cooked* bird at Costco, and that's what they consider the "top end" of their chicken budget ... So to save my customer one penny I have to sell the bird for $4.99, which earns me between $2.49 and $2.99 with which to feed and water and tend each bird for 8 weeks (possibly more with the slower-growing fermented feed free-range method) ... and process each one by hand. It would take a lot of the 249-299 cents of "profit" off of each $4.99 chicken to pay for the $100 plucker. We'll leave feed costs out of it because the birds foraging "free stuff" for survival.

The customers want more savings than one penny that to make up for the hassle of buying from me instead of the store.

And most people don't even want a whole bird ... they just want the breast but I can't "part" the birds on the farm (that's illegal). A USDA approved plant could process and part the birds, but that .

Another *odd* hurdle is getting people to drive the 4 miles from town to my farm to pick up their meat ... as the law requires for farm-processed poultry. They expect delivery. Weird, huh?

Unless, of course, I have the birds processed at a USDA facility, then I can deliver. But that costs extra. The one USDA facility I know of in Oregon charges $5.25 per 7 lb bird, more for the bigger ones. Oopsie!

*Obviously* I'm dealing with the wrong customer base ... but having worked through the math, it does make me realize I can't compete with grocery store prices even for my own meat. I'm honestly not sure how anyone could.

My customer and I even toyed with the idea of having a "work party" processing day with a group of customers. Nobody wanted to participate in that.