Delawares from kathyinmo

[LeslieDJoyce]

My birds haven't gotten corn in a while now. I switched to a corn-free feed shortly after the first chicks hatched. I've been giving them some soaked hay pellets for pigments cuz my pastures are pretty seasonal.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Zanna, nice to have an update from you. It brings up a question that I've been considering.

Since we are all starting out with a small number of these Dels from Kathy, how important is creating breeding groups or families, so that you make a wider genetic pool?

Do we just breed the best to the best, complimentary matings, with no regard to how they are related?

Or, do we breed as many as possible at first, so that we have more diverse genetics within our flock?

I only have 4 breedable F4 hens from Kathy. I planned on making several "family groups" by using 4 males with these hens. Except, now I'm down to 2 F4 cocks. All 86 offspring this year was from 1 of those cocks. The second male is showing a bit of brassiness.

So, I wonder if I should just continue on, breeding the best to the best from the small gene pool of 4 hens & 1 cock? Or do I use the brassy cock to create another genetic group?

Complicating this is the fact that a couple of those 4 hens were producers of better offspring than the other 2. Yet, those same two hens produced defects ie cross beak.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

As a new breeder, I'm very pleased to have someone else nearby who is working on the same project. I couldn't have gotten started with this line of Dels if Zanna hadn't shared a trio of her F4s with me. I don't know if sharing a trio with me made her breeding choices easier or harder ... not even considering the fact that I'm completely new to breeding so could easily have flaked out in some way and sharing anything good with me was a risk for her.

Now I'm just hoping I don't start messing these birds up. I'm trying to set up housing so I can keep lots of the birds around for a while so I'm not making "permanent" decisions.

And of course Zanna gets pick of the litter, so to speak. I think that makes sense in terms of helping move this project forward, which is the whole point IMO.

We (if I can insert myself here) still only started with the 25 F4 chicks locally, but working together might keep a few extra options open.

 

[Zanna]

Zanna, nice to have an update from you. It brings up a question that I've been considering.

Since we are all starting out with a small number of these Dels from Kathy, how important is creating breeding groups or families, so that you make a wider genetic pool?

Do we just breed the best to the best, complimentary matings, with no regard to how they are related?

Or, do we breed as many as possible at first, so that we have more diverse genetics within our flock?

I only have 4 breedable F4 hens from Kathy. I planned on making several "family groups" by using 4 males with these hens. Except, now I'm down to 2 F4 cocks. All 86 offspring this year was from 1 of those cocks. The second male is showing a bit of brassiness.

So, I wonder if I should just continue on, breeding the best to the best from the small gene pool of 4 hens & 1 cock? Or do I use the brassy cock to create another genetic group?

Complicating this is the fact that a couple of those 4 hens were producers of better offspring than the other 2. Yet, those same two hens produced defects ie cross beak.

I like your questions/thoughts.

We need to start a thread called Recreating a New Line of Chickens, Breeding 101 for Dummies

My mantra is "What you tolerate is what you will have". I don't think we should be breeding brother/sisters at this point but certainly the best Fathers to Daughters and Mothers to Sons and get as many on the ground as we have time/money/space and sanity for. I don't think it is a good idea to breed the birds with the brassiness even though we all seem to be very limited in our breeding choices. Just my thoughts and I don't know much, I sure think, debate and dwell a lot though...........

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Because I'm such a beginner breeder I've been diving for procedural info. I posted some links to another thread here on BYC ...

Here is a nice little PDF about breeding from the first year from the Livestock Conservancy. 

http://www.albc-usa.org/documents/ALBCchicken_assessment-3.pdf

A list of some of the other publications available through the ALBC 

http://albc-usa.etapwss.com/index.php/heritage/internal/chicken-manual

That page has cool things like toe punch charts and evaluation forms for selecting breeders and assessing chicks. 

This page is a writeup by Bob Blosl explaining how he would get started with a line breeding project. One of the things I like about what he describes here is how few birds he suggests a breeder can start with ... it seems to be a nicely calm approach. 

http://bloslspoutlryfarm.tripod.com/id61.html

And here is Bob explaining Line Breeding.

http://bloslspoutlryfarm.tripod.com/id60.html

 

[finnfur]

Thoughts from a novice ;
Blosi says it can be done with small numbers- I believe it

NYReds found out how to do it - believe he has a head start

If you have different breeders running the same line [ like ya'll there out west] I would think after 4 or five generations or sooner you could do some swapping.
Kinda like fifth cousins marrying. This is why I found a close partner to run this line - we can both work on it then swap and still keep the line pure

All of these originated from the few Kathy started with - so they are all related

I talked to a Del breeder of another line that has won some shows [ don't know what size ] - she said that to get color/markings correct it was determined by her that she had to run one line for Hens and one line for Cocks

Wing-A-Ding thing
Every cockerel from Bert #1 s off spring has the wing feather problem[ except the smallest one] - Going to put the 2nd string in for the spring hatch and see what happens.
Micheal Newman and Barred Rocker have some by # 2 but don't know if having same problem yet.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I presume crossed beaks shows up at birth. When do the wing problems show up?

 

[crazyhen]

I'm following along too. I have some of Kathys line. The Roo is a big boy but had a puffy tail for the longest time. I only kept a few hens due to my being sick. If someone needs new blood to put in though maybe next spring I could hatch some more.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Every cockerel from Bert #1 s off spring has the wing feather problem[ except the smallest one] -

Do you mean wings too high? I had some like that and some ended up normal.
Or, do you mean split/slipped wing? Again, some have corrected with age, some may not. Count feathers, even the ones just coming in. My best male has what may be split wing. My best pullet last year had slipped wing... she was culled.

I presume crossed beaks shows up at birth. When do the wing problems show up?

I had crooked beaks show up at every age. Some I didn't see until 4 months of age. Wings look funky when the first set of feathers come in. Some change with the second set.

I'm following along too. I have some of Kathys line. The Roo is a big boy but had a puffy tail for the longest time. I only kept a few hens due to my being sick. If someone needs new blood to put in though maybe next spring I could hatch some more.

Hi Gloria! I wish you the best.

 

[finnfur]

I presume crossed beaks shows up at birth. When do the wing problems show up?

I notice it some as soon as they have feathered out - almost all can notice at 14 week weigh in.
Maybe I need to start looking but I can't recall any with crossbeak

I'm following along too. I have some of Kathys line. The Roo is a big boy but had a puffy tail for the longest time. I only kept a few hens due to my being sick. If someone needs new blood to put in though maybe next spring I could hatch some more.

Ok will keep in mind - thanks - and I wish you a speedy recovery