Delawares from kathyinmo

[LeslieDJoyce]

The breeding consultant came up today to look at the flock with the other local breeders. My brain is numb at the moment. So much to digest. I learned how to find bad wings in younger cockerels.

He also suggested that as the birds get bigger and heavier -- he recommends going ahead and aiming for big birds -- it might be good to let them sleep on the ground. This helps keep the keels straight, and avoid other injury. No roosts is a very new concept for me. I'll have to think on that. We have a while before mine are oversized.

 

[finnfur]

The breeding consultant came up today to look at the flock with the other local breeders. My brain is numb at the moment. So much to digest. I learned how to find bad wings in younger cockerels.

He also suggested that as the birds get bigger and heavier -- he recommends going ahead and aiming for big birds -- it might be good to let them sleep on the ground. This helps keep the keels straight, and avoid other injury. No roosts is a very new concept for me. I'll have to think on that. We have a while before mine are oversized.

How much over standard is "Big Birds" ?
No roosts ? How are we going to determine pecking order LOL. If I took the roosts out mine might start sleeping in trees.!
4 oz of a good wine is good for brain numbness.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

How much over standard is "Big Birds" ?
No roosts ? How are we going to determine pecking order LOL. If I took the roosts out mine might start sleeping in trees.!
4 oz of a good wine is good for brain numbness.

I was running around playing hostess & fetching things when a lot of the real meat of the consultation was discussed, so I missed a lot of the fine print. BUT for Large Fowl, particularly the Dual Purpose birds, the upper weight limit doesn't seem to be a real limit as long as the bird is well fleshed ... not all bones or fat. Some of the historical weight ranges are somewhat obsolete as we get better at feeding & growing birds. For bantams it's another story.

So the Wing Ding ... the "lazy" wings that don't fold properly and look slipped or split regardless of state of feather growth (these birds look key-Ray-zee as they trade baby wing feathers for adult wing feathers) or if there is an Axial Feather or not: the deal there is if the joint is weak or loose. He showed me/had me feel a loose joint and I couldn't "see what he meant" until I got to examine a good one. SO glad there WAS a good one to feel. Cull the ones with the weak joints! Check both sides on any bird that seems okay on the first side. Last year I didn't note it in my flock, but this year the loose wing joints come with knock knees, and probably have other hidden joint issues. Don't breed that if you have a choice. There are reasons both are DQs in the show ring.

Isn't that beautifully simple?!? You can pull a bird off the roost at night and pull out a wing and zip tie the culls in your cull color, then watch them the next day for knock knees and see how true it is in your flock.

Hunched REX wing shoulders?... possibly related but I haven't seen it here.

Beaks. We're supposed to have Reddish Horn beaks, but what does that mean? Most of my birds have yellow beaks, which makes the darker streaked beaks look wrong (seeing some of those this year). But guess what ... darker streaks on the beaks are correct, and yellow beaks are no big deal.

Legs: rich yellow shanks and toes seem to be elusive. Look at the bottoms of the feet. If the bird is truly genetically white-legged, the bottoms of the feet will be white. Any shade of pure yellow seems okay, acceptable, with darker yellow being better. Green (willow) is bad if it comes from black pigment bleeding through the yellow -- but there are greenish shades of pure yellow that are okay. Yes, other birds have more reliably orange legs, so we like to aim for that. It's pretty.

Depth: look for depth of body from the front of the keel clear to the back of the keel. The keel should be long and straight and deep. This helps the bottom curve of the bird AND the top curve. Shallower birds will give you that angular top line. And I gather those nicer longer keels are one reason why letting them sleep in deep bedding is a sensible choice: it helps keep the keels straight. Roosts could be provided, provided they are low, like 18" off the floor, and wide. I've got some high roosts here! The long straight deep keels help keep the bird from going all heart-shaped and front heavy and pinched in the back. Check from the side, the "bottom", and by feeling the gap between pelvis and keel in the back.

Width: preferably equally wide from shoulders to tail.

I got to mark one cockerel as my current breeding choice, and sent one home with the youth breeder (she also got a CUTE little pullet). I held my cockerel on my arm for a bit while we all chatted. He was so even looking and wide from shoulder to tail and felt wonderfully full and fleshed against my forearm. That made me smile. But I've still got a LOT of birds to pick up off the roosts at night and feel and sort.

My birds were completely freaked out by the visitors. I've NEVER seen anything like it.

For sure I need a keg of wine and a long stare at the horizon. Though my best horizon is sunrise, so I'll have to start drinking early to get my brain sorted.

Repeat process down at Zanna's in a few weeks. She has already culled a LOT, but she has other breeds. More info overload!

 

[fowlman01]

Nothing like having someone looking at the birds in person. Was that Bob?

Walt

 

[finnfur]

I was running around playing hostess & fetching things when a lot of the real meat of the consultation was discussed, so I missed a lot of the fine print. BUT for Large Fowl, particularly the Dual Purpose birds, the upper weight limit doesn't seem to be a real limit as long as the bird is well fleshed ... not all bones or fat. Some of the historical weight ranges are somewhat obsolete as we get better at feeding & growing birds. For bantams it's another story.

So the Wing Ding ... the "lazy" wings that don't fold properly and look slipped or split regardless of state of feather growth (these birds look key-Ray-zee as they trade baby wing feathers for adult wing feathers) or if there is an Axial Feather or not: the deal there is if the joint is weak or loose. He showed me/had me feel a loose joint and I couldn't "see what he meant" until I got to examine a good one. SO glad there WAS a good one to feel. Cull the ones with the weak joints! Check both sides on any bird that seems okay on the first side. Last year I didn't note it in my flock, but this year the loose wing joints come with knock knees, and probably have other hidden joint issues. Don't breed that if you have a choice. There are reasons both are DQs in the show ring.

Isn't that beautifully simple?!? You can pull a bird off the roost at night and pull out a wing and zip tie the culls in your cull color, then watch them the next day for knock knees and see how true it is in your flock.

Hunched REX wing shoulders?... possibly related but I haven't seen it here.

Beaks. We're supposed to have Reddish Horn beaks, but what does that mean? Most of my birds have yellow beaks, which makes the darker streaked beaks look wrong (seeing some of those this year). But guess what ... darker streaks on the beaks are correct, and yellow beaks are no big deal.

Legs: rich yellow shanks and toes seem to be elusive. Look at the bottoms of the feet. If the bird is truly genetically white-legged, the bottoms of the feet will be white. Any shade of pure yellow seems okay, acceptable, with darker yellow being better. Green (willow) is bad if it comes from black pigment bleeding through the yellow -- but there are greenish shades of pure yellow that are okay. Yes, other birds have more reliably orange legs, so we like to aim for that. It's pretty.

Depth: look for depth of body from the front of the keel clear to the back of the keel. The keel should be long and straight and deep. This helps the bottom curve of the bird AND the top curve. Shallower birds will give you that angular top line. And I gather those nicer longer keels are one reason why letting them sleep in deep bedding is a sensible choice: it helps keep the keels straight. Roosts could be provided, provided they are low, like 18" off the floor, and wide. I've got some high roosts here! The long straight deep keels help keep the bird from going all heart-shaped and front heavy and pinched in the back. Check from the side, the "bottom", and by feeling the gap between pelvis and keel in the back.

Width: preferably equally wide from shoulders to tail.

I got to mark one cockerel as my current breeding choice, and sent one home with the youth breeder (she also got a CUTE little pullet). I held my cockerel on my arm for a bit while we all chatted. He was so even looking and wide from shoulder to tail and felt wonderfully full and fleshed against my forearm. That made me smile. But I've still got a LOT of birds to pick up off the roosts at night and feel and sort.

My birds were completely freaked out by the visitors. I've NEVER seen anything like it.

For sure I need a keg of wine and a long stare at the horizon. Though my best horizon is sunrise, so I'll have to start drinking early to get my brain sorted.

Repeat process down at Zanna's in a few weeks. She has already culled a LOT, but she has other breeds. More info overload!

OK that was way to much to digest in one glass - it may take me a week but its very informative and thanks for the post.
And I said 4 oz not kegs.
I need to do some major assessments this year and get back to hatching /raising.
Do you remember the egg layer hen assessment video - trying to find that- please

 

[finnfur]

Oh! and to add - Lonesomes greenish legs have turned yellow - and a nice yellow also. Go figure !

 

[rancher hicks]

So I've posted this question on the other Del thread.

Can you see the little black line near the eye? I've seen this before and haven't mentioned it. Now I realize it's fall and hatching may be over elsewhere but a couple of the girls have other ideas so of course they get Del eggs. I mean if I've gotta deal with chicks they may as well be Delawares.

So back to that line. I've got three chicks in the brooder and only one has this "egyptian paint" near the eye. Because of this little mark I'm considering keeping TWO coops of Delawares and working with those. As I've said I've seen it before. Anyone care to comment on it? I don't notice it in the adults though. Of course it will mean another coops. Help me Jesus!

My Dels are not mixed with any other breed. They are kept in a large run to themselves. With the Exception of Frenchy a frizzle, 7 yrs old and Buckwheat, Frenchy's daughter who is 6 yrs and sitting on eggs. No other roosters are in there but Dels. Hens are a mix of my own, Kathy's and another breeder who I won't mention.

FYI, I have folks asking for Delawares, because they're so nice, but I don't sell them or eggs. I also generally do not bring in new birds. I hatch my own.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Nothing like having someone looking at the birds in person. Was that Bob?

Walt

Yes. I got to meet him for about a minute this past spring at the youth fundraiser thing where I donated a trio of these Delawares. He lives pretty close to me, and lots of people have great things to say about him, and we kind of bonded about pickiness over wings ... so a couple weeks ago I asked if he did coop visit consultations, and if so what were his rates.

It was great we could get everyone together. Everybody's schedules are pretty full! Bob seemed to appreciate that we have a teamwork approach to working with these birds.

 

[fowlman01]

Yes. I got to meet him for about a minute this past spring at the youth fundraiser thing where I donated a trio of these Delawares. He lives pretty close to me, and lots of people have great things to say about him, and we kind of bonded about pickiness over wings ... so a couple weeks ago I asked if he did coop visit consultations, and if so what were his rates.

It was great we could get everyone together. Everybody's schedules are pretty full! Bob seemed to appreciate that we have a teamwork approach to working with these birds.

He was a great choice to look them over.

w.

 

[caychris]

Ill get some pic the next time Im at Neal's but we are having a lot of barring in this latest batch of Chicks. Its making me think that the other cockerel we had (not Kathys line) is responsible for the color pattern on the two oldest females hatches we have.

We are seeing some red bleed through after the latest molt on some of the birds we got from Kim and it seems to be carrying over to some of the offspring. Just small patches of red feathers.