deleware X buckeye . . .

[McSpin]

Quote:
I have to wonder why so many people put down hatchery stocks so much on this forum. My delawares are from a hatchery and they are as meaty as any I've seen on this forum - more so than most. I'm guessing my roos are going to top out around 10+ lbs. They have been over 6 lbs at 20 weeks. I've also noticed quite a few others with very decent sized hatchery delawares.

My advise would be to ask questions from wherever you get your birds to see if they'll have a good chance of being what you're looking for. Inbred birds from a backyard breeder could be total junk if the breeder doesn't know what they're doing, and how many really know what they're doing. Out of the hundreds of people with birds for sale on this forum, how many actually have a detailed well thought out breeding plan, and how many are just breeding another generation from whatever they happen to have? Out of all the breeds I keep the scrawniest ones came from a backyard breeder with supposed show stock. They also have the worst personalities, lay the smallest eggs, and have the most deformities. I'd take any hatchery bird over these any day of the week.

 

[OutInTheStiks]

Quote:
I have to wonder why so many people put down hatchery stocks so much on this forum. My delawares are from a hatchery and they are as meaty as any I've seen on this forum - more so than most. I'm guessing my roos are going to top out around 10+ lbs. They have been over 6 lbs at 20 weeks. I've also noticed quite a few others with very decent sized hatchery delawares.

My advise would be to ask questions from wherever you get your birds to see if they'll have a good chance of being what you're looking for. Inbred birds from a backyard breeder could be total junk if the breeder doesn't know what they're doing, and how many really know what they're doing. Out of the hundreds of people with birds for sale on this forum, how many actually have a detailed well thought out breeding plan, and how many are just breeding another generation from whatever they happen to have? Out of all the breeds I keep the scrawniest ones came from a backyard breeder with supposed show stock. They also have the worst personalities, lay the smallest eggs, and have the most deformities. I'd take any hatchery bird over these any day of the week.

I think most people who "put down" hatchery stock do so based on the fact that most hatchery stock does not match breed standards. I have two delawares that are likely hatchery stock. Are they good birds? Yes, for my needs. They are attractive, they lay well, they get along with my other birds. Would they be good foundation for raising show quality Delawares? Not at all.
That being said, I do agree with you that just because someone calls themselves a breeder does not mean that they are going to be producing show quality birds either.
To me, it comes down to a question of what my individual needs and wants are for a particular bird or breed. For show quality, I would look for a reputable breeder who has made a good name for themselves. For my run of the mill backyard birds, hatchery stock is fine.

 

[HBuehler]

I am in NO way against Hatchery birds..if I were I would have to cull much of my flock..they have their place here just fine. I even have Hatchery Delaware's we were using for another chicken project. They are big 10 pounds but they are often taller than Heritage Dels adding the weight there and not to the breast area.Hatcheries don't breed true and yes they are big yes they are pretty but NO they are not the same bird as what was developed to be a meat bird many years ago.
I'm sure someone has told the previous poster chickens that are bred to be shown often compromise the egg size and production as they are bred for something totally different and if your buying their stock it probably is the most flawed because they are only selling the culled non show quality birds...making an overall very poor bird.
I don't think I ever mentioned show quality Dels in my post..we don't show ours we eat ours

I let a little color flaw stay if the body and disposition are correct..I don't eat feathers just meat and eggs.

 

[Germaine_11.20]

So how can we tell the difference between a "Hatchery Del" and a "Heritage Del?"

 

[OutInTheStiks]

Quote:
As I usually do, I got too wordy and lost the point of my post. I should have left it to this single sentence and left out the specific examples.

 

[Pathfinders]

You see some pics of Buckeyes here on my website: http://www.pathfindersfarm.com/Buckeyes.html

And here's one of a cock bird taken this month:

And for those of you interested in learning more about Buckeyes, please join us at the Yahoo Group for the American Buckeye Poultry Club:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AmericanBuckeyePoultryClub/

 

[speckledhen]

You have such great Buckeyes, Laura! Great color and conformation, though I'm no expert on the breed.
McSpin, not all hatchery stock is junk, certainly, and not all breeder stock is good quality. It's just that you're generally more likely to get good foundation stock from a serious breeder who actually culls and breeds for quality than from most hatcheries. It's just more hit and miss from hatchery stock. You are very fortunate to get such meaty Dels from a hatchery--wish they all looked that good, but sadly, they just don't.
I agree with Krys, use the Buckeye cock with a Del hen for sexlinking.

 

[TimG]

Quote:
Thank you for the link. Actually Buckeyes have NO RIR in them at all.

After posting that, I came across a site that listed no Rhode Island Red in the Buckeye history. Just so as not to think I was crazy, I did a little searching and found this at buckeyechickens.com:

Her name was Nettie Metcalf, and in 1896 in Warren, Ohio she crossbred Barred Plymouth Rocks, Buff Cochins, Rhode Island Reds, and some black–breasted red games.

There is definitely conflicting information out there. Sorry to have passed on bad information (if I did).

I hope you give the cross a try and let us know whether the chicks are sex linked.

Tim​

 

[Pathfinders]

Quote:
Thanks! They are my biggest project at this point, getting the club up and running is taking time, but I feel it's well worth it.

And yes, there is conflicting info on the RIR's role in the Buckeye. Honestly, I don't know that we'll ever know exactly what birds Mrs. Metcalf used to develop them, short of coming across some of her written records. There are books that quote her, but no way to be sure they're correct.

The point now is, we don't cross RIRs into our Buckeyes ever (that darned single comb thing, which still crops up every now and then from the distant past, and for which we cull heavily.)

But the color is somewhat similar, so it's easy to think there's a connection.

 

[walkswithdog]

I've gotten hatchery dels, breeder dels and heritage dels.

The hatchery dels came from two sources. So in truth - four sources for the birds I grew out.

While hatchery dels are bigger than hatchery rocks, hatchery Australorps and other standard breeds. They aren't the same as those from a breeder who has been working on them well, or those from "heritage" breeders with many generations of work in them.

If all I had were hatchery birds, I'd certainly work with them - they are birds with serious potential. Having gotten some decent - fourth gen from hatchery, breeder birds - they're bigger for that breeder's work and better than the hatchery stock, and the Heritage male I got - while he has an off comb - he has screamingly nice type otherwise, and with the girls I did keep - mostly breeder birds and two hatchery girls, I expect a very nice type improvement in the offspring.

Hatcheries only breed for approximately the right color, and egg production. They're not opposed to using Columbian Rocks to improve either lay or color and it was obvious in both batches of hatchery chicks.

Yes, even hatchery Dels are sizeable at 20 weeks. Good breeder birds and my heritage males were bigger, the boys HUGE.

Show birds are only less productive in very tightly inbred lines over the very long term - YEARS and YEARS.

A Show or Heritage cull may have faults that make the bird not meet the standard BUT they have far far far fewer faults than hatchery stock that has NEVER been bred to the standard.

A Heritage cull - like my Roo, has a bad comb - not awful but the points are wrong. He however has a proper head, proper eye, proper coloring including hackle and tail, proper leg color, EXCELLENT body type and wing set, he has good ears and wattles, he's a freak he's so huge - YAY. Other than his comb - he's very very close to standard.

My hatchery stock while larger than other standard breeds are narrower in body type, often have poorly barred hackles or all black tail feathers or the other way and too poorly black and laced tail feathers. I had to cull a ton of them for pink or absolutely GREEN legs, I had to cull a LOT of them for sprigs. I had to cull a LOT that stopped at about Partridge Rock size. And two for really really lousy wing set.

Having had four sources, I can see the difference. I'd rather take a heritage, show or good breeders eggs or cast-offs than work up from hatchery when I can.

I am lucky there's a decent breeder near me and Cyn's close enough to bug occassionally and next year I am going to bring in some Heritage or Show eggs to grow out, while growing my own from what I have and culling.

The next generation is already on the ground and growing and I'm pleased - they're hefty little suckers.

If you are going to adhere to the Standard. Where you get them does matter. If all you want is production of food and sweet birds to play with, then hatchery works.

I love mine, the great huge pinkish eggs, the big carcass, the amazing foraging and funny personality. I just also happen to want to hammer very very hard toward the Standard. To each his own.