Designer Breed open Discussion

[athomas718]

Hello all!!
I am wanting to try my hand on breeding a uniquely colored Brahma, utilizing the types I am currently attempting to get. This is a rough sketch of a project but I want it to really flesh out soon.
I have gotten:
Dark Brahma
Blue Brahma
Gold Brahma
(all of these have what I think is partridge markings)

Light Brahma
Buff Brahma
Lavendar Brahma
Jubilee Orpington

Not utilizing:
EE and OE or Brahmacaunas I have


So with these for reference types - what kind of unique coloring could I make with any of them? Keeping the Brahma body and phenotype.

If you can add pictures. I’m a visual person.

 

[SourRoses]

I think you have two goals that are in conflict.
Goal 1: Uniquely colored
Goal 2: Named color with predictable outcome

If what you mean by unique is that it doesn't match any known color, no one will be able to name it for you or determine if you will get it, especially without knowing the specific color genetics in the background of your flock (more than just what they appear to be).

If what you meant by unique is "rare", then you should look through pictures of breeds with many color varieties. Like OEGB, Silkies, and more...
When you see colors you like, write the names down, then come ask BYC which varieties could be made with the colors you currently have.

 

[athomas718]

I think you have two goals that are in conflict.
Goal 1: Uniquely colored
Goal 2: Named color with predictable outcome

If what you mean by unique is that it doesn't match any known color, no one will be able to name it for you or determine if you will get it, especially without knowing the specific color genetics in the background of your flock (more than just what they appear to be).

If what you meant by unique is "rare", then you should look through pictures of breeds with many color varieties. Like OEGB, Silkies, and more...
When you see colors you like, write the names down, then come ask BYC which varieties could be made with the colors you currently have.

I do know what colors I would like. I would love Mottled Lavendar Brahmas and Mottled Red Brahmas. I loved to make some Lemon Partridge Brahmas. However, maybe there’s a Brahma color someone else has seen that I’m not even thinking of.

And of those would be really pretty.

I wasn’t as specific in my post I see. I think what I should have asked is - can I get any of those I mentioned with a long term breeding/highly selective process with the birds I’m currently getting. Is there any other bird type I should look into to get those qualities.

This isn’t about easiest road to take. It’s about playing around with genes and breeding and see what works and what doesn’t over a long time. More of a hobby interest that maybe one day could become something that is a stable outcome color type.

 

[NatJ]

I have gotten:
Dark Brahma
Blue Brahma
Gold Brahma
(all of these have what I think is partridge markings)

Light Brahma
Buff Brahma
Lavendar Brahma
Jubilee Orpington

I would love Mottled Lavendar Brahmas and Mottled Red Brahmas. I loved to make some Lemon Partridge Brahmas.

I wasn’t as specific in my post I see. I think what I should have asked is - can I get any of those I mentioned with a long term breeding/highly selective process with the birds I’m currently getting. Is there any other bird type I should look into to get those qualities.

Given what you said in the parts I have quoted, I think you will have all the right genes to create the colors you named. Each one will be a long term breeding project.

As you work on each of them, some of your culls will have the genes to create other colors. For example, while creating Mottled Lavender, you will also get some Blacks and some Mottled Blacks. Breeding Mottled Reds will also create some reds that don't show mottling, and probably some Mille Fleurs as well (gold instead of red in the coloring.)

However, maybe there’s a Brahma color someone else has seen that I’m not even thinking of.

You can get the Blue version of every other color you have (turn all black to blue, leave the pattern and the other color alone).

You can get the Lavender version of every other color you have (turn all black to light gray, turn buff/gold/red shades to light cream.)

You can probably get Single Lacing (that's the kind of lacing you see in Wyandottes.) If you get that pattern, you can have it as Silver Laced and Gold Laced (both have black edges of the feathers, with silver or gold in the middle of each feather.) You can get ones with red in the middle of the feathers. You can also get the Blue and Lavender version of each one.

This isn’t about easiest road to take. It’s about playing around with genes and breeding and see what works and what doesn’t over a long time. More of a hobby interest that maybe one day could become something that is a stable outcome color type.

There are lots of possibilities. All of them will be long projects. You probably don't have enough space and time to do them all (most people don't), but you could pick the ones that appeal to you and work on them for as many years as you enjoy doing it.

 

[athomas718]

As you work on each of them, some of your culls will have the genes to create other colors. For example, while creating Mottled Lavender, you will also get some Blacks and some Mottled Blacks. Breeding Mottled Reds will also create some reds that don't show mottling, and probably some Mille Fleurs as well (gold instead of red in the coloring.)

I really like this example you gave. Let me just state it back to know if I understand. When culling for Mottled Lav- I can use some of those culls to in turn get some genes for say Mottled Reds or Lemon Mille?

You can get the Blue version of every other color you have (turn all black to blue, leave the pattern and the other color alone).

You can get the Lavender version of every other color you have (turn all black to light gray, turn buff/gold/red shades to light cream.)

You can probably get Single Lacing (that's the kind of lacing you see in Wyandottes.) If you get that pattern, you can have it as Silver Laced and Gold Laced (both have black edges of the feathers, with silver or gold in the middle of each feather.) You can get ones with red in the middle of the feathers. You can also get the Blue and Lavender version of each one.


There are lots of possibilities. All of them will be long projects. You probably don't have enough space and time to do them all (most people don't), but you could pick the ones that appeal to you and work on them for as many years as you enjoy doing it.

We have 16 acres, and I could get lots of those little coops as my breeding pens and play around with who gets to be in the breeding pens while I’m working on my little hybrid colorations.

Anyone who is no longer needed for breeding would either be sold, processed or put in with the general egg herd.

But I’d def want to start smaller so I can be really sure of what I’m doing.

I will need to research which Rooster would be best with which hens.

 

[NatJ]

I really like this example you gave. Let me just state it back to know if I understand. When culling for Mottled Lav- I can use some of those culls to in turn get some genes for say Mottled Reds or Lemon Mille?

Yes.

I really like this example you gave. Let me just state it back to know if I understand. When culling for Mottled Lav- I can use some of those culls to in turn get some genes for say Mottled Reds or Lemon Mille?


We have 16 acres, and I could get lots of those little coops as my breeding pens and play around with who gets to be in the breeding pens while I’m working on my little hybrid colorations.

Anyone who is no longer needed for breeding would either be sold, processed or put in with the general egg herd.

But I’d def want to start smaller so I can be really sure of what I’m doing.

It sounds like you've got a good start for your plans Starting small is a very good idea.

I will need to research which Rooster would be best with which hens.

Yes, I expect you will be doing a lot of research. Hopefully you enjoy that part too

 

[athomas718]

Yes, I expect you will be doing a lot of research. Hopefully you enjoy that part too

Where would be the best place to test / research rooster combos.

There’s that genetic website but idk how to use it right and it’s not in English.

 

[NatJ]

Where would be the best place to test / research rooster combos.

Unfortunately I don't know of one single source that's convenient.

There’s that genetic website but idk how to use it right and it’s not in English.

Do you mean the one with the chicken calculator? It can be in several different languages, including English.
https://kippenjungle.nl/chickencalculator.html

If you want to learn chicken genetics thoroughly, this page has links to several more pages talking about them:
https://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page0.html

And this website has some articles in English too:
https://www.chickencolours.com/index.php/articles/

I think your projects will especially call for some understanding of the mottling gene and the lavender gene. You will also be dealing with the e-locus genes (those make a big difference in the color of the chicken, such as black vs. having multiple colors, and arrangement of colors when the chicken is multi-colored.)

You can also read threads on this site (some are more helpful than others), and obviously you can ask questions too. Genes work the same way in different breeds of chicken, so for example if someone is creating a Lavender Mottled chicken in some other breed, their experiences may also be helpful to you.

Edit to add:
If you want to play with the chicken calculator, here is a post I made previously, telling some things about using it:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...vender-and-others-help.1615017/#post-27584833
It is most helpful when you know a little bit about what each gene does.
This page has a list of chicken genes and talks a little bit about each one:
https://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page3.html
It's not a complete discussion, but after you understand the basic ideas, it is a very handy reference when I just need a quick reminder of what a particular gene is or does.

 

[athomas718]

Here’s what I’m going to start with:
6 Jubliee Orpington chicks
8 Lavendar Brahma eggs


I’m going to pick the top 2 cockerels and hopefully 3 or 4 hens.

I’m going to breed Lav Roo to Orpington Hens
&
Orpington roo to Lav hens

And then generate chicks from that and start the F1 clans.

Then I will use second roosters from original line and swap them in. And create a second set of clans.

Please assume I am heavily culling for desired characteristics and traits. None of the F1 chicks will have the coloration desired but will all have the recessive genes necessary for F2 to show coloration 1/16th of the time.

This is all based on what I’ve researched so far.

And as for the e-locus gene I will get back to you when I’ve played around with that more too.

 

[NatJ]

Here’s what I’m going to start with:
6 Jubliee Orpington chicks
8 Lavendar Brahma eggs


I’m going to pick the top 2 cockerels and hopefully 3 or 4 hens.

I’m going to breed Lav Roo to Orpington Hens
&
Orpington roo to Lav hens

And then generate chicks from that and start the F1 clans.

Then I will use second roosters from original line and swap them in. And create a second set of clans.

Please assume I am heavily culling for desired characteristics and traits. None of the F1 chicks will have the coloration desired but will all have the recessive genes necessary for F2 to show coloration 1/16th of the time.

This is all based on what I’ve researched so far.

And as for the e-locus gene I will get back to you when I’ve played around with that more too.

That sounds like a good starting point!