Detecting Coccidiosis Early

[LaynaDon95]

Yeah, I understand the question: Why? Honestly I'm not sure...something doesn't feel right about giving them medicine when nothing is wrong. If I started to detect an issue I'd switch immediately without a problem (hence my question about early warning signs). I suppose it's similar to how I raise my kids: I only give them medicine if it's really necessary, and not until then.

I'm very close to just switching, but it doesn't feel quite right. I'm still on the fence and it's a perfectly legit question.

Aprolium blocks absorption of some vitamins which can lead to vitamin deficiencies, but I didn't learn that until after I decided not to use meds. I just really don't like the idea of feeding my chickens (which I will later eat) anything I wouldn't be willing to eat myself. Most people don't mind because they are only on it for a few weeks, and say it doesn't stay in their system for long enough to matter. I don't know how long it takes for aprolium to leave a chicken's system, but I imagine it's longer than most people think. Did you know it takes a week for one bottles worth of formula to leave a babies system? I would much rather feed my chickens medicated feed than have them all die, but I want to learn how to avoid it.

 

[bobchristenson]

Currently we don't have any other chickens (the coop is empty)..it's our first batch. So, it sounds like maybe it's a little less risky now, but would get more risky later (and with subsequent sets). Agreed?

 

[ButchGood]

Yeah, I understand the question: Why? Honestly I'm not sure...something doesn't feel right about giving them medicine when nothing is wrong. If I started to detect an issue I'd switch immediately without a problem (hence my question about early warning signs). I suppose it's similar to how I raise my kids: I only give them medicine if it's really necessary, and not until then.

I'm very close to just switching, but it doesn't feel quite right. I'm still on the fence and it's a perfectly legit question.

Understood, I feel the same way about my own health. I don't take flu shots, I think most of our inoculations are questionable and most medical practice is about money not our health. But Im flip flopped, it just dosn't seem right not to be preventitive with my live stock. But I totally understand and support your right to do what you feel is right for you and your own. Good luck with your little buggers, they sure are a lot of fun.

 

[LaynaDon95]

nvm I didn't read it all before I posted. =P

 

[LaynaDon95]

Understood, I feel the same way about my own health. I don't take flu shots, I think most of our inoculations are questionable and most medical practice is about money not our health. But Im flip flopped, it just dosn't seem right not to be preventitive with my live stock. But I totally understand and support your right to do what you feel is right for you and your own. Good luck with your little buggers, they sure are a lot of fun.

He is being preventative. Just not with aprolium. I would recommend more preventatives, but I've seen first hand that natural preventatives do work if you keep them up. It's the keeping them up part that's important. =P (askmehowIknow)

 

[bobchristenson]

How long are you supposed to feed starter anyway...did I see something about 6 weeks? If so, I'm more than halfway in, which gives me more confidence to just keep going if everything seems ok. Sound reasonable?

 

[LaynaDon95]

How long are you supposed to feed starter anyway...did I see something about 6 weeks? If so, I'm more than halfway in, which gives me more confidence to just keep going if everything seems ok. Sound reasonable?

Yes, it's about six weeks, then on to grower. I have some that are about 4 days away from needing grower. *a single tear drop* They grow up so fast.
I have some 5 1/2 week olds, 4 1/2 week olds, almost 2 week olds, and some day olds I picked up from the feed store today. I didn't think I'd end up with this many when I started.

Chicken math, ya know?

 

[Presidential]

I have my first flock of 21 chicks... So, I know nothing...
But, I got into this chicken-mania to have clean, healthy meat & eggs. I don't see how vaccinations & medicated feed fit into that plan.

I am reading the "old timers" thread and it speaks to me. Survival of the fittest- chicks with strong immune systems will survive without the added chemicals in medicated feed. I also put my chicks outside (covered grassy run) at 2 weeks to allow them to forage and exercise. They are in a warm coop at night. I watch their body language to know if they are warm enough.

Hopefully, all will go well. I realize this is a learning experience that could go horribly wrong. Right now, my chicks are still only 3 weeks old and all doing remarkably well. I'd like to learn about your choices and results, so we can compare notes.

Keep me posted!

 

[LaynaDon95]

I have my first flock of 21 chicks... So, I know nothing...
But, I got into this chicken-mania to have clean, healthy meat & eggs. I don't see how vaccinations & medicated feed fit into that plan.
I am reading the "old timers" thread and it speaks to me. Survival of the fittest- chicks with strong immune systems will survive without the added chemicals in medicated feed. I also put my chicks outside (covered grassy run) at 2 weeks to allow them to forage and exercise. They are in a warm coop at night. I watch their body language to know if they are warm enough.
Hopefully, all will go well. I realize this is a learning experience that could go horribly wrong. Right now, my chicks are still only 3 weeks old and all doing remarkably well. I'd like to learn about your choices and results, so we can compare notes.
Keep me posted!

That's really awesome! Will you keep me posted? I would love to do that if it works! Be careful, though. 3 weeks is the age most illnesses appear. Keep your eyes peeled. Once, you notice blood, you have less than a day to get meds into their systems before they start dying off. *yet again, ask me how I know.*

I'm trying to figure out how much longer I want to leave mine on meds... I have had it in their water and in their food *disappointed face* since Sunday. I think I'll take it out of their water and leave them on medicated feed until this coming Sunday. I don't want to take them off to early, but I really don't want to have them on it for longer than necessary. Do you guys think a week of meds is long enough to fight it off enough it won't come back as soon an I take aprolium out of their diet?

 

[Erica]

Most people don't know that the earliest sign of cocci is not eating. Watch the feed dish and if it stops going down at the same rate as usual, act.

Lethargy, hunching, pallor, loose droppings all come late in the illness.

However all chickens do runny droppings (called cecal droppings) about one in four poops, so there's no need to panic if you see mustard-coloured droppings here and there.

Raising chicks without medication is totally possible. I do it all the time. But the key is to graduate their exposure. That is, never let the exposure levels suddenly shoot up. Since warm wet weather can cause massive increases in coccidia numbers, this can be hard to get right.

The easiest way to minimise cocci risk is to raise chicks with a hen, and don't do it in a sterile or ultra-clean brooding area. A tractor is perfect because you can always move it to fresh ground. The thing you're aiming for is graduated exposure.

To achieve graduated exposure, with artificial brooding the keys are in not hatching huge numbers, sprinkling the brooder with hen soil from the start, shifting them to a new brooding area at 3 weeks so the brooder isn't heavily 'seeded' (after this the numbers of coccidia shed by each chick goes up), feeding kefir or some other soured milk (soured milk is a definite preventive), and continuing to increase exposure gradually.

For instance here I start chicks in a small wire brooder (adding a handful of hen soil), then at 3 weeks shift them to a tractor (on ground that's been used in this way before, so I know it's got cocci), then at 8-10 weeks I might put them into my grower pen, or I might keep them in the tractor.

This works really well (along with kefir) and the only cases of cocci I've seen in several years have been 1. A bought-in pullet that had been raised on wire, and so she got cocci within a week of being here; 2. a single chick that may have had immune problems because all her hatchmates remained fine; and 3. One occasion when I raised a few too many cornish x birds in the tractor, and we had drenching summer rain -- cornish x poop like there's no tomorrow (and hence shed a lot more cocci oocysts per bird; also their immune systems aren't as good as layer type birds).

I'll say it again, graduated exposure is the way to raise chicks without medication. It works and also allows medication to remain effective (yes, coccidia can become immune to ionophores, which are the preventive medications). Best of all I'm not seeding my soil with drug-resistant coccidia.

Raising chicks without medications is totally worthwhile, though with the effort involved it's not for everyone. Still, I have about 20 chicks, 20 adult birds and an incubator full, and I get through all the chores in about half an hour a day. None of my birds eats processed food (except to the extent that I grind up sprouts and other ingredients for the babies).

Regards (and I know I've written an essay... sorry about that! It's just a huge issue.)

Erica