Devastating - the dog killed another chicken

[Chicken Fruit]

Being a responsible animal owner means thinking ahead of the animal. Personally I dont believe hounds or game dogs have any business being house pets. Theyre bred for a purpose, which is not being a yard ornament. It works fine for some people I am sure, but i still feel the dog is at a loss.

Anyway, The dog needs space, and the chickens need space, which means you need a fence and a gate to separate the two.

you can put the dog on a chain, or buy it a muzzle, or get it a shock collar, but when it comes down to it, the dog looses- and all because its doing what it was genetically programmed and bred to do.

Call a lumber mill, theyre every where, you can get raw lumber for almost nothing. We just fenced our whole village lot with solid privacy fencing for about 500 dollars. You dont need that much for a nice dog yard. 300 would probably quarter off your yard in such a way to give the dog enough space, and protect the chickens.

There should be a space for each creature, and each creature in its space. Dont have creature fondue in your yard- its just messy.

 

[adoptedbyachicken]

From my own experience I can say for sure that a dog having killed chickens is not the end of that dog's life as far as being around chickens. I have rehabed 3 now. I do take breed, age and drive into consideration, that has to be your focus. If the dog is hunting birds due to the breeding of the dog then I think you have a dog unsuitable to your situation. If the dog mistook the chicken for a play toy, was bored or grabbed a hold of it to find out what it was and got carried away, or just got into the fun of it you have a strong chance of turning the dog around if your willing and able to take the time to do it right.

I'll give you examples. One killed chickens as a pup of about 7 months when I had her out with me and another dog. She had been uninterested in chickens up till then and I was training a horse so not watching her closely. When I noticed she had a headless chicken in her mouth bounding about in the puppy romp mode and throwing it in the air while the other dog slept peacefully in the sun. He had apparently got tired of playing with her so she found something else to play with. I took the chicken from her and scolded her but also made sure she understood how I felt bad for the chicken, used a voice that made her understand. She whined and tried to lick the chicken looking worried, I knew I got through to her. From then on till she was more adult she was not trusted, and had better supervision. She was also made to accompany me on leash to do chicken chores and I often held and cood over a bird while she watched, she was made to be gentle with them and understand at all times that she was to be calm and in control near them, NO playing. She did make another mistake and yes I did not have good enough control of her at the time, I had begun to think she was ready to try out in the yard. So I got a muzzle which she wore while they were free ranging and it gave me a time advantage. The next time she went to grab a flapping bird (she never started this things, they did running about, she just wanted to join the 'fun') she never got a hold of it in that split second it would take me to say NO BAD DOG! I would then go and roll her to her back in front of a few chickens to cement the lesson. As the months went by where she never got away with it, and she grew out of the puppy games thing anyway I now have a reliable dog. Keep in mind this is a LGD breed so they do not continue the prey drive, they are very low that way bred against it to make them do the work they do. She now is the guardian of my flock and doing a great job. She lives with them 24/7.

Another dog I am just doing now is a English Shepherd. They are both a LGD and a herding breed so this one is a bit more complicated. He has the herding instinct and is good at it. He has come to me from a city home where he was deemed people aggressive due to his frustration at not getting enough exercise and no fulfillment of his drives. He came here to find chickens and horses, Oh MY!!!! How exciting. Yes the first thing he did was grab for a bird. Lunging full tilt on the leash and right off he found out that is not acceptable. So he had no contact with the birds till he could do full obedience all around the birds including sit and down stays and straight recalls by them. Int hat time I did take birds into my arms and coo with them, telling them how special they are to me and making sure the dog understood they were mine. I gradually over a few days gave him the opportunity to get to know the scent of the birds and lick their vent like all dogs do. He was gentle with them when given the task that way. Next step was for him to accompany me with all my chicken chores not on a given command but yes on a short leash and NO extra interest in the birds permitted. At the same time please understand that I was dealing with his other issues, the lack of exercise and the fact that he had not had true leadership in his life yet. He was getting run 5 to 10 km a day and introduced to other livestock as well, livestock that is now becoming his work to move around. He too now is with my birds all the time except when we are out working other stock. I have no issues with him and birds, however he is still chasing the horses at times and I continue to work on that.

One was a pup as well but it was hunting due to it's mixed up breeding of herding and hunting dog. She was a very high prey drive dog that came to me with no training at all and even with much training she would clearly never be reliable with birds. She was also the Houdini type that got out of quite a few kennels and even forced the door of a crate. She never killed a chicken, she just held them down and ripped all their feathers out if she got a hold of them, often with skin. I did much training with her and found her the perfect home with someone that wanted to do flyball and agility. She had endless energy for chase and even after hours of playing ball with her I could not get her to even think about leaving the chickens alone. This was not the right home.

Basically I think no one should rely on either training or physical barrier alone. Both fail. Dogs get out, so do chickens. You need to be thinking your dog would be alright with them, but not relying on it. Training your dog to be in control with a great distraction like a chicken is a good thing. While basic obedience needs to be started first of course all dogs should progress to such things as distractions. Owners need to take the time it takes to get there, it's just that simple. Get help if you don't have the knowledge to get that far. Rehome your dog or the chickens if it's going to be a heartbreak mix, it's the right thing for everyone involved, especially the critters. If your not going to spend the time to make it safe for all it's your responsibility.

Just my opinion.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Quote:
Underground fences are meant for training. Used for permanent control the dog becomes used to the shock and will ignore it. With proper supervision a underground fence becomes useless in time. Once a dog learns it's boundaries they respect them. A large dog that cannot be trained with a collar is a danger to all and should be put down. I love my animals but I have had to do this with one 140# dog that could not be trained to obey commands and there was no way I was going to endanger other peoples lives by taking the chance he would get out of my yard and maim or kill.

A dog that acts on prey of any type and will not respond to commands is a danger to children as well as chickens.

 

[sandypaws]

i have not read all responses... but

if it was MY dog (and i own strong-willed hunting dogs) i would do a littlebit of EVERYTHING...
#1 train the dog to respect YOU as the boss.. train all the basics first (thread started about that) if you can controll your dog VERBALLY things will be a bunch better..
#2 stronger fence with 3 strands of HOTWIRE on it.. if the dog touches the fence and the fence "bites" back (zzzaaappp) the dog wont challange the fence..
#3 never let your dog mingle with the birds, ever!!.. if you do a basket muzzle is a good idea but WITH a leash or shock collar is better.. you can correct the dog firmly BEFORE he sets to attacking the birds..

if you dont train the dog it will never get better... you might as well just put the dog to sleep... finding the dog another home is just moving the problem to someone else, it does not solve anything.. be responsible for your mistakes and put the dog down.... or train it..

 

[sandypaws]

most people that DONT like "ceasar" it is because in his training there are consiquences for the dogs wrong actions... dog is BAD ,dog get poked... "negative action"

IOW.. those people use ALL POSTIVE "clicker" training.. there is no negative respones .. if the dog is bad they just ignore the bad behavior... when the dog is good, the dog gets a click and food...

now tell me... is that going to work for a chicken killer??? hahahahahahaha NO WAY

 

[suebee]

Adoptedbyachicken, Thank you for your very informative post.
I have trained 2 Golden Retrievers (big time bird dogs!!!).
I wish I would have kept a diary on how I trained them.
I am now training a 7 week old Golden Retriever puppy.
First, it really depends on the dog's disposition. Yes, Golden's are bird retrieving dogs, but they want to please you at the same time.
I've trained Golden #2 to protect my chickens but chase the neighbor's chicken's out of my yard. She can differentiate between the two.
We just got the Golden #3. She's only 7 weeks old and already eye-balling and physically shaking when she see's the chickens. She has chased them also. Of course she's on a leash at this young age. Because I have an advantage of having another Golden to help me teach her about chickens, I am hoping to have her trained in just a few months.
I'll try to keep a diary and post my experiences.
Suebee.
]

 

[shelleyd2008]

OMG!!

What an adorable baby!! I need to get another golden! I miss mine so much!

 

[suebee]

Thanks Shelley, she's an angel with horns right now because she wants to get my chickens, but she'll come around in time with training.

 

[dancingbear]

I have 3 dogs who at one time killed chickens. I had another, but he passed on of old age a few years ago. I was able to train all 4 of them to leave the chickens alone. I have another who chased them when I first got her, but she learned very quickly that it wasn't acceptable. She was easier than most. She responded to just a stern "CLEO, NO!", after about a week she wasn't paying any attention to them, except if they made a ruckus she'd run to see what was up. Now she guards and protects them, has taken on both foxes and raccoons, and evicts possums from the coop when she finds them. She's basset hound and mystery dog. The one who passed on was golden retriever/collie mix (we think), the other three are one Old English Sheepdog, and two Lab mixes. Mixed with what, I have no idea.

The first two, the goldencollie mix, and the sheepdog, I used methods very similar to adoptedbyachicken's methods, and it worked. I was careful not to have the dogs outside unsupervised when the chickens were out, unless they were muzzled, until I was certain they'd lost interest in the birds. After that, I started letting them out alone for short periods, and watched from a window, until I was sure they could be trusted. Neither of then made any moves toward the chickens again.

My 2 big dogs hated the muzzles, but they were never wearing them for very long. Just if they needed to go out for a potty break while the birds were out, and I couldn't go out with them right then. They'd go out, looking depressed, go potty and come right back in, so they could get the hated muzzle removed. Then, when I could go with them they went out without it. They both would respond easily when I called to them, so as long as I was there, they were easy to control by voice. I didn't use muzzles with the Labs, couldn't keep them on. Turned out I didn't need them, anyway, once I figured out how to work them more effectively.

The Lab mixes didn't catch on with that, but responded very quickly when I switched to Cesar's methods, which was working with them daily on a leash, (I had to get a Gentle Leader collar for the female, or have my arm ripped out, but she doesn't need it now. I only had to use it 3 or 4 times, what a difference it made!) and reinforcing that I'm the pack leader. Then, the chicken part was easy. They caught on very quickly, once I figured out how to communicate with them. No shocking, no hitting, and the touch part, "finger bites", isn't a poke, at all. It's just a touch. At least with these two, that's all it takes. Now, mostly I just use sound. A sharp "Choosh" sort of sound, or a sharp "unh-ah" like Victoria uses. A finger snap also works, if they're right next to me.

This type of training is not about "all negative" things for the dogs. That's only when correcting behaviors. A lot of it is just learning how establish that you're the boss, and get the dog into a calm state of mind. It's hard to work with a dog that's in a frenzy, or afraid, or too excited. Then how to communicate what you want to the dog, using body language and attitude. And using the right tools, like a muzzel or a Gentle Leader collar.

If you think these dogs have a hard life because of my training methods, you wouldn't think it for long if you spent one day around here. You should see my husband, (who says he doesn't like dogs) in his recliner with this 62 lb. Lab mix "puppy" sleeping on his lap. I have to make the dogs move over so I can get in my bed at night.

 

[ZRider10]

IMHO, hunting dogs (pointers and hounds in particular) should never be left alone with "prey." Although there may be some exception, their instincts are just too strong.

You seem unwilling to put your dog in an enclosure that's separate from the chickens. You might want to try a highline. I'm using one for my husky/hound/pointer cross, and he loves it. You just have string a rope between two trees or between your house and a tree, attach a cable to the rope and the cable to a harness on your dog. They can run as far as the rope and really seem to enjoy it a lot more than being contained behind a fence. My dog now sits at his cable everyone morning waiting to be attached before I leave for work.

Words of caution:
Don't even think of attaching a dog to it with a choke collar unless you want a dead dog.
Don't put it too close to anything he can jump over or crawl under. He could get stuck on the wrong side of a fence.
I clip to both the collar and the harness, because my dog's a Houdini and can escape from the harness.

I agree that training should also be part of how you deal with your dog, but I think it'll always be asking for it to leave a hunting dog out with anything that'll run away from it.