Developing My Own Breed Of Large Gamefowl For Free Range Survival (Junglefowl x Liege)

[Florida Bullfrog]

Lanky has been isolated from a mature cock for 19 days.

 

[genesis1verse1]

Wow! I guess it really is more of a hormonal issue than a food issue slowing the maturity. Great example right there!

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Wow! I learned the other day that's called Black-Breasted Red. Go figure. Never seen one that big though.

She's the biggest non-oriental game hen I've seen. I'm in love with her. She's exactly what I'd like to cross into the Crackers to add size but keep a Cracker look. Now here's an interesting genetic twist if accurate...

... she's supposed to be the daughter of Jager/Orion the black aseel that is the father of Indo (remember I sent that black aseel to a local gamefarm a long time ago after I crossed him to the Liege). So if correct she's half-aseel, half-Blueface, and her size might be due to oriental influence. The breeder regarded this hen his best creation from crossing the aseel to his signature BF line. She's lived wild in the back woods of the game farm since she was a chick. Not only is she straight combed she was the only chick of the aseel not to be black.

So she came out straight-combed as a F1 to a pea comb. That's most certainly possible if the black aseel was carrying a recessive straight gene with his pea comb. She definitely seems to have some hybrid vigor going on with her size. I am reasonably sure the black aseel or one if his cousins produced a straight combed F1 before in either my care or my brother's care (my brother had other aseel from the same game farm I got the black one from) but I can't find the records and my brother doesn't recall, although my brother did in fact get straight comb F1s from pea-comb Sumatras.

I've got to study the genetic side of combs more. I know pea comb is dominant and straight is recessive, but I am unaware how long a pea comb line can carry recessive straight. I don't believe the black aseel has recently crossed ancestors but I could believe he had straight combed Americans bred in many years ago closer to the time of importation in order to freshen up the genes.

If the breeder is wrong I don't believe he's lying to me, but I am wondering if her mother may have long-retained sperm from another rooster and made one chick by another rooster among other chicks fathered by the aseel.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Wow! I guess it really is more of a hormonal issue than a food issue slowing the maturity. Great example right there!

I agree, but I also have to acknowledge that this isn't a scientific test. The stag does have access to constant food now because he's in with 2 molting Cracker hens that I keep constant feed for. To truly eliminate constant food as the cause I'd have to ration him each day. I can verify he doesn't eat a lot. Its a common trend in most of my birds that when past the chick stage, they don't eat a lot of feed even when offered in a coup setting so long as they have access to green grass, which he does at the moment. I don't have to touch up the feeder but once a week and I do not fill it when I do touch it up.

 

[NatJ]

I've got to study the genetic side of combs more. I know pea comb is dominant and straight is recessive, but I am unaware how long a pea comb line can carry recessive straight.

As long as each generation has at least one pea comb bird that carries single comb, and that bird passes on single comb to a bird in the next generation, it can continue forever.

As a practical matter, it is likely that breeding only from birds who show pea comb will eventually yield a line that is pure for pea comb-- but likely is not the same as certain!

 

[genesis1verse1]

I was wondering about this today and thought I would ask you @Florida Bullfrog , have you determined whether or not the asil mix with liege offspring have increased fertility? Have you been able to tell yet whether the 3/4 liege have improved fertility as well? I have heard that pure liege from gff are so inbred that they struggle with fertility and hatching rates. I had some nice pure liege from gff but unfortunately had to sell them before they were fully mature and laying.

 

[Mugwumpgame]

I was wondering about this today and thought I would ask you @Florida Bullfrog , have you determined whether or not the asil mix with liege offspring have increased fertility? Have you been able to tell yet whether the 3/4 liege have improved fertility as well? I have heard that pure liege from gff are so inbred that they struggle with fertility and hatching rates. I had some nice pure liege from gff but unfortunately had to sell them before they were fully mature and laying.

I know your question was meant for @Florida Bullfrog, but I have some experience with the Belgian Liege from GFF. I have a Belgian Liege cock 3 yrs, and 6 hens (daughters) 2yrs. Had a paired hen with my cock when I first purchased the Belgian Liege. The hen layed 11 eggs before getting egg bound and dying. Incubated the 11, and 7 hatched (6 pullets, 1 stag). Sold the stag, and kept the pullets which I bred back to their father. The first, and only time I bred the hens to their father, I Incubated 24, and only 5 hatched out strong. Everyone I know that had Belgian Liege from GFF had low numbers hatch out of large numbers Incubated. Belgian Liege in America from GFF are all from the same gene pool (very indred thinned bloodline). I too decided to bred my Asil cock to my 6 Liege hens next next year to try and strengthen the bloodline (fingers crossed). I am exing my Liege cock out of the breeding next year, and the year after that till I get enough breeding stock from my Asil x Liege. I want 3/4 Asil x 1/4 Liege before breeding back to my Liege cock. I also know that the so called pure Belgian Liege here in America is not so called pure. They are Belgian game (Brugse x Liege cross). When GFF brought breeding stock back to the states he had both Belgian Brugse, and Belgian Liege, and thinking they were the same breed put them all together in the same breeding pen. That why they don't breed true. You will always have some that take after the Brugse, and some that take traits from the Liege. Some are more wider, and thicker with a horizontal back (Bruges), and some are slimmer with more of an upright 45°angle slop to it's back (Liege). The tails on both the Bruges, and the Liege are suppose to be held low, but some if not most of the stock here in the states have a higher to high station to its tail. There are some rumors going around that some spanish, or peruvian blood was added, and crossed back to the Liege/Brugse during the breeding at GFF, hence the high stationed tail in some specimens. I have done years of research on the Belgian Liege/ Brugse, and found out that even the bloodlines in Europe (talked to people in Europe with Brugse/ Liege) are quite thin as well as they almost went extinct in Europe. So yes the gene pool in the Liege/ Brugse is thin, and even thinner in the states (inbred), and yes fertility/hatching numbers do seem to be impacted because of this issue. I hope my Asil can clean things up in my Liege down the line. But only use Asil type Oriental's to clean up the bloodline due to them being part of the Liege ancestry.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I was wondering about this today and thought I would ask you @Florida Bullfrog , have you determined whether or not the asil mix with liege offspring have increased fertility? Have you been able to tell yet whether the 3/4 liege have improved fertility as well? I have heard that pure liege from gff are so inbred that they struggle with fertility and hatching rates. I had some nice pure liege from gff but unfortunately had to sell them before they were fully mature and laying.

The initial crossing of the aseel cock to the Liege hens produced highly fertile eggs but fragile offspring. Of the 24 or so 50/50 crosses I produced. All died after being rained on in the big growout coop or being free ranged for a few days, except Indo and his sister, as well as another male/female pair that died after free ranging a few weeks. So of two dozen half/half birds, only Indo and his sister made it.

When Indo tops non-Liege, he produces fertile eggs across the board. When Indo tops the Liege hens, less than half are fertile or live long past initial development. However, of the 7 that did hatch, 6 are doing well free range. The 7th died of salt bush poisoning.

The 3/4 Liege are not old enough to test fertility.

My brother reports around 25% fertility on many of his Greenfire Liege batches. Like me, he has high fertility crossing the aseel to the Liege, but his 50% birds haven’t had the hardiness issues that mine has. His aseel cock came off the same farm as mine but was BBR instead of black.

We plan on exchanging 3/4 birds in the future to see if 3/4 to 3/4 of different lines will produce more fertility.

Here is a 3/4 cockerel that I just traded for my excellent pullet from a few posts ago. He takes more like a Liege than a Brugse.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

This is the 3/4 stag I have high hopes for. He takes on more like the Brugse. I’d like him to end up having the stature of a pure Greenfire Liege. My brother has a mature Greenfire cock that is the size of a wild turkey and has spurs as long and thick as my index finger.

 

[Appalachian homestead]

Florida Bullfrog did y'all and your birds make it through the hurricane ok?