Deworm or Not to Deworm

[Ridgerunner]

Yesterday I found a pile of poop with worms in it. Only two hens roost there, so it's gotta be one of them. Both hens look and act just fine.

Question for everyone to think about. What would you do if you found such a poo? There is no wrong answer, I'm just curious as to how you would deal with it.

Not sure since I've never had to face that. Speculation is easy but real life reaction can be quite different. If it were several worms I'd probably treat the flock since I'd expect that to mean a fairly high worm load. If I treat at all I treat the flock, that part I'm sure of.

If it were a single worm, I'd have a decision to make. Since I've never seen any which means they have not formerly been in this environment, do I immediately treat to try to keep them from getting a foothold here? Or do I accept that by the time I see a worm they are now established in this area so I can't eradicate them. In future I observe the flock and see if they area acting like worm load is high or not. Whether it was a roundworm or tapeworm would lead me to further study and might make a difference in how I react.

I seriously doubt that I'd start giving them ACV, DE, garlic, cucurbit seeds or anything like that as a preventative. Mine get cucumber and squash in season but that's not a treatment, it's just garden excess. I haven't seen anything to make me believe any of them are all that effective. The only study I've found that I trust was on goats, not chickens. The results were between no don't help to inconclusive at best. The one that was deemed worth further study was cucurbit seeds, but some of their initial tests showed sometimes the results were better but sometimes the results were worse. That probably means there was an untested variable in those studies, maybe not the cucurbit seeds. The goal of that study was not to totally eradicate the worms but to find an effective organic solution to improving performance, that is minimizing the effect of a worm infestation.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Did you know that all wormers in that class of wormer can cause feather growth issues, including Valbazen?

No, I had not heard that. I'll have to reword my standard warning. Thanks.

 

[RollTideChicken]

Wouldn't any worms be a bad thing? All the worms are doing is sucking up nutrition and adding no benefit. I mean it would be different if there was some symbiotic relationship but worms are just freeloaders, right?

 

[Bogtown Chick]

I stood in the crowd that does not worm unless you have to.

Then along came Blackhead. A disease that rides inside worms. We are low land and swamps, pot holes. Earthworms abound-so the birds were picking up a lot of these in their diet. My high hen got Blackhead (she was treated the most by the rooster) and I traced it out to intestinal worms via earthworms. I needed to worm. So she needed then medicine for the Blackhead AND for Worms. Now I worm once a year in the late fall. No eggs and no free-ranging really as they won't leave the run with snow on the ground. I know after dealing with the disease that my birds get a fair to large load of them. I am a regular ACV user for general bacteria gut health and nutrition.

People on high Sandy dry ground usually don't have these issues.
I think also-yes-folks in the south have more issue. Sometimes 30 below serves a good purpose.
Those with birds in tighter confines where droppings aren't as spaced out should also consider if they are eating off the ground.

When considering wormers. Consider the molt. Wait until all feathers are in. Especially if you live in COLD climates. The way those feathers lay and cup is important in holding in body heat with the down. If you are in a balmy climate and don't mind the wavy feathers or no showing...etc...etc... I'd say worm away.
I also think nutritional / garden supplements don't hurt and only help the fight. But there are times when they just don't cut the mustard and it's time for bigger ammo.

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Wouldn't any worms be a bad thing? All the worms are doing is sucking up nutrition and adding no benefit. I mean it would be different if there was some symbiotic relationship but worms are just freeloaders, right?

yes. Yes. Yes.

But as livestock, chickens are expendible traditionally. If they are to be eventually on the dinner table then weighing the cost of wormers on a bird that has come into season and then having that drug in their system before they are on the table is generally why some folks don't worm.

If you are a pet keeper and generally keep your laying hens for years and years. I think it is a good idea to worm at some point. How about every two years to diminish the load? It is all really very dependent on lay of the land and your goals with your birds.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Freeloaders, yes. But as someone, I think Mary, said earlier a light worm load does not cause great inefficiency. Wild animals often carry a small worm load and they still function fine. Right now your body has unpleasant bacteria in it, that's a guarantee. As long as those numbers stay under control you won't get sick. It's when the numbers get out of control you have problems.

I agree with Bogtown. We are all unique and have our own situations we have to deal with. If roundworms, tapeworms, cecal worms, blackhead, coccidiosis protozoa, or other things get in our environment we have to deal with them. If they are not in our environment we don't.

 

[Folly's place]

Fenbendazole can/ will cause issues with growing feathers. Not the end of the world, but still an issue.
The biggest problem IMO, is that chickens are livestock, not a pet species, and different rules apply to them. If you really really have an intestinal parasite issue, and can't manage it any other way, there's no approved products to use. So on with unapproved products, which will be in the eggs for a VERY LONG time, which is why the approvals are so difficult. There's no reason to 'just worm' your hens; have a very good reason, based on fecals, necropsies, or actual illnesses diagnosed.
Turkeys and peafowl will die of blackhead, from parasites (interesting life cycles) that most chickens can handle. That's different. Coccidia is treatable if it's a problem too.
Mary

 

[casportpony]

So I decided to deworm the three hens that roost together to see if any of them poop out more worms. The two big ones are laying for sure (both had eggs in their pelvic girdle). Both are in very good condition, though one had a few feather lice. I wonder if she is the one with worms? Will be interesting to see what the overnight poops look like.

 

[casportpony]

Fenbendazole can/ will cause issues with growing feathers. Not the end of the world, but still an issue.

I read that fenbendazole and all other in it's class can produce fret marks.

fenbendazole- a useful drug, has the disadvantage that it and other drugs in the same group cannot be used during moulting otherwise a ‘fret mark’ will form in the feathers that were growing at the time of treatment
Source: source: http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/Articles/Race_Form_Part3.html
Fret marks:

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.

 

[pennyJo1960]

I personally do not worm my birds but also have never used medicated feed going on three years now if I ever saw indication I would right away just have not seen a problem in my ladies